The National

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

Although everyone was looking forward to attending the National, how many were looking forward to going to Atlantic City? Hopefully, 2021 will return to Chicago.

It would have been a nice change of pace. Lots to do there other than cards which is nice. Looks like it might get canceled which would be unfortunate.

[polakoff]

I personally love the AC show. I did better as a dealer there than in Cleveland and found much more stuff to buy, too.

[marzoumanian]

Before the Fanatics/Rosemont show was cancelled here in Chicago earlier this month I kept wondering why they were waiting so long to kill it. I learned that it all came down to insurance ($$$). I was told by a dealer who was exhibiting that until the governor of Illinois prohibited large gatherings of people (which he announced on 3/11, the day before the Fanatics show was to begin) Fanatics would have not been able to get its money back (from the convention center). Once JBP declared, Fanatics cancelled.
I don't know what the National's insurance situation is but the wise thing to do in light of this pandemic is to cancel sooner rather than later, in my humble opinion. We shall see. Take care.

Mark Arzoumanian

[1952boyntoncollector]

What are sellers supposed to say now that like to use the threat, 'ill sell it at the national to get my price' when trying to negotiate a card that has been listed for months and months.. that was a main tool in their tool box..

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

What are sellers supposed to say now that like to use the threat, 'ill sell it at the national to get my price' when trying to negotiate a card that has been listed for months and months.. that was a main tool in their tool box..

I have never once seen that before your post. Have any examples of sellers saying that?

[CurtisFlood]

I took a skip year this year due to knee replacement and the fact I was not sure I would be physically ready for the drive and grind of a weeks national. In that regard I feel fortunate not to be worrying about whether or not the national will be held. Some of my buddies are very concerned about whether it will be held or not, and if I were to venture a guess, I would say there will not be a national this year.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have never once seen that before your post. Have any examples of sellers saying that?

in plenty of emails over the years, i guess its akin to 'ill sell on ebay if cant sell here etc'

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by bigfish

It would have been a nice change of pace. Lots to do there other than cards which is nice. Looks like it might get canceled which would be unfortunate.

Due to casinos opening up all over the place Atlantic City is a shadow of what it used to be. Really sad to see. I used to love going there when it was bustling.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Due to casinos opening up all over the place Atlantic City is a shadow of what it used to be. Really sad to see. I used to love going there when it was bustling.

Actually the facts are that they closed a few casinos and right-sized the market pretty well, and with the introduction of sports betting AC was pulling in all time high revenues this year before the shutdown.

[ejharrington]

I really hope not. I live on East Coast and cant make the ones in the Midwest. This will be my first if it happens.

[polakoff]

I know it's doubtful because of the logistics but does anyone think they might "postpone" until the fall rather than skipping altogether?

[Exhibitman]

Refunds are probably the driver, not insurance. Typical business interruption insurance is not going to cover this.

All week long I have been reviewing business interruption coverage for clients with regard to this circumstance. Most any policy written by a carrier who uses ISO forms (the Insurance Services Organization; the company that writes most insurance forms) has a policy that contains endorsement ISO CP 01 40 07 06 “EXCLUSION OF LOSS DUE TO VIRUS OR BACTERIA”. I did some research to try and figure out the interpretations of this provision. In 2006, ISO introduced the CP 01 40 07 06 – Exclusion Of Loss Due To Virus Or Bacteria endorsement. The reason cited in their Forms Filing application in Louisiana was as follows:

“While property policies have not been a source of recovery for losses involving contamination by disease-causing agents, the specter of pandemic or hitherto unorthodox transmission of infectious material raises the concern that insurers employing such policies may face claims in which there are efforts to expand coverage and to create sources of recovery for such losses, contrary to policy intent.

“In light of these concerns, we are presenting an exclusion relating to contamination by disease-causing viruses or bacteria or other disease-causing microorganisms.”

A policy with this endorsement excludes “loss or damage caused by or resulting from any virus” and specifically applies to “forms or endorsements that cover business income, extra expense or action of civil authority.” That effectively prohibits coverage for all of the losses of income a business closed or suffering vastly reduced income due to the pandemic might assert. The operation of this exclusion is considered ‘absolute’, similar to the way the pollution exclusion is written: regardless of what form the loss takes, if it stems from the virus it is excluded.

I also checked to see if we could trigger based on the stay at home order itself or the government rent abatement orders rather than the virus itself. Unfortunately, not. Even assuming the virus exclusion did not apply, governmental order coverage is triggered by physical damage to property near yours that makes it unsafe to enter or that causes the civil authorities to temporarily deny you physical access to the premises. Nor does it cover loss of business due to the event. The ISO property policy typically used with the virus endorsement states:

“Extended Business Income does not apply to loss of Business Income incurred as a result of unfavorable business conditions caused by the impact of the Covered Cause of Loss in the area where the described premises are located.”

“Loss of Business Income must be caused by direct physical loss or damage at the described premises caused by or resulting from any Covered Cause of Loss.”

Everyone who thought private insurance was going to bridge the gap for them and who ended up with a typical ISO-drafted policy is in for a very rude awakening. That said, every policy has tweaks and modifications, so the only way to see what the insurer will do is to make a claim and see what happens. I also hear that some states are considering regulations that invalidate the exclusion for this pandemic. You need to run your policy past your lawyer in your state to get a specific answer.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Everyone who thought private insurance was going to bridge the gap for them and who ended up with a typical ISO-drafted policy is in for a very rude awakening. That said, every policy has tweaks and modifications, so the only way to see what the insurer will do is to make a claim and see what happens. I also hear that some states are considering regulations that invalidate the exclusion for this pandemic. You need to run your policy past your lawyer in your state to get a specific answer.

Just curious, if someone files a claim now and it gets denied, then their state invalidates the exclusion... Could the ins co still deny it because the claim was put in before the exclusion was invalidated?

Also, it seems pretty slimy for insurance to exclude losses because of a global pandemic. Losses if one individual gets sick, I can see not covering that, but when it's a major problem?
Seems like "we'll cover stuff, as long as it's not really all that bad. "

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bigfish

It would have been a nice change of pace. Lots to do there other than cards which is nice. Looks like it might get canceled which would be unfortunate.

Agreed for the East Coasters, something within driving distance.


It's still pretty far away, so I'm holding out hope.

I've done a family trip to AC avery year, and this coincides quite nicely

[Treakle23]

Too bad they couldn’t do a virtual National. Sellers list everything they were going to bring with them (with images) and sellers are labeled in booth order. It would open the National to every collector. Maybe a dumb idea on short notice, but.....

[Snapolit1]

I just received notification from Ticketmaster that a show I have tickets for at Madison Square Garden in mid August has cancelled. Pretty clear conventions not happening.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I just received notification from Ticketmaster that a show I have tickets for at Madison Square Garden in mid August has cancelled. Pretty clear conventions not happening.

& the Hall Of Fame cancelled the induction ceremony too!

[Jewish-collector]

I doubt there will be a National this year. That's too bad because the National is more about meeting up with fellow collectors and dealers, enjoying dinners after the show, having a few cold ones, etc,... and less about acquiring vintage cards.

[roarfrom34]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

& the Hall Of Fame cancelled the induction ceremony too!

You may have misread that...They cancelled their HOF Classic weekend in late May & they very well may eventually cancel Induction weekend in July as well, but that hasn't been announced yet

[Jay Wolt]

Bill thanks for the clarification, hopefully its still a go come summer