Gabby Hartnett, Lou Gehrig Bats

[Tightlines]

Hello,
First time poster here. I was recently given a few baseball bats by a friend of the family. I was just hoping maybe I could get a little bit of info on these. He told me they were possibly pretty valuable, but I haven't been able to find much info on the history or value of them. Any help would be appreciated!
Louisville slugger - Gabby Hartnett model
Zinn Beck - Lou Gehrig type
Louisville slugger - Nelson Fox

[sayhey24]

The Gabby has a great chance of being a gamer. It’s a beautiful bat — what’s the length and weight, and is there a number lightly stamped into the knob?

The Gehrig is a very desirable bat, but likely can’t be called a gamer. Same questions as above.

The Nellie Fox is a store bat.

Great acquisitions!

Greg

[Tightlines]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

The Gabby has a great chance of being a gamer. It’s a beautiful bat — what’s the length and weight, and is there a number lightly stamped into the knob?

The Gehrig is a very desirable bat, but likely can’t be called a gamer. Same questions as above.

The Nellie Fox is a store bat.

Great acquisitions!

Greg

Thanks for the reply!
The length on both appears to be 34" weighing in at 37.5 oz
The Gabby model says 34 on the bottom and the Lou Gehrig bat looks like someone marked it with a B

[perezfan]

That could also possibly be a # 8 on the Gehrig Bat's knob.

[sayhey24]

Unusual to see a number in marker on a bat that age. If there is no small 34 actually imprinted into the knob, the Hartnett is almost definitely a gamer and quite valuable.
The length and weight match his ordering records.

Greg

[Tightlines]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

Unusual to see a number in marker on a bat that age. If there is no small 34 actually imprinted into the knob, the Hartnett is almost definitely a gamer and quite valuable.
The length and weight match his ordering records.

Greg

Thanks for the info! I believe these bats have just been sitting in a closet for ages. I need to get some more info on where he got them from.

[JoeDfan]

Awesome bats!

I love that Zinn-Beck!

[Tightlines]

Originally Posted by JoeDfan

Awesome bats!

I love that Zinn-Beck!

Thanks!

[Tightlines]

I took some HQ pics of the bats today. Here is the Hartnett model. Upon further inspection it appears as though it had a nail put in the end to prevent a crack.

I've noticed a couple of differences on this bat vs ones PSA has examples of. HERE

No Powerized logo. Which if I understand correctly means this was a bat from prior to 1932. Also this bat just says Trade Mark under his name, which in comparing it to other player models seems to indicate it would be from 1928-31. This is just internet sleuthing so grain of salt.

If this is a gamer, I do think I will sell this bat. I'm not a collector and it doesn't really make sense for me to have something this rare sitting in a closet. So that leads me to my next questions. Should I try to have this authenticated by PSA? Or should I use one of the auction sites to help in authenticating it? This is all uncharted territory for me so I really appreciate every ones help!

[JoeDfan]

If you are looking to sell, and you think it is a gamer, I certainly think having PSA take a look is a good idea.
A Hartnett is not a cheap bat. Having that PSA sticker attracts people who would not otherwise have an interest I think.
If you consign it to an auction house, they might want it to have a PSA sticker, or perhaps get it authenticated prior to the bidding maybe.

[icollectDCsports]

I think most auction houses that regularly sell game used bats will take care of PSA for you so that bidders see that it's confirmed as a gamer, so probably best to investigate options for auction houses before going straight to PSA. Will save money from having to pay PSA separately. If you decide to sell it yourself, then going directly to PSA would make sense.

[Tightlines]

Thank you both for your advice. I'm going to try and get some help finding a player bat order record. It would be nice to see if this matches up with any he would've ordered back then. 👍

[JoeDfan]

I believe that sayhey24 already pointed out that it does indeed match his orders.

See comment #5.

[Tightlines]

Originally Posted by JoeDfan

I believe that sayhey24 already pointed out that it does indeed match his orders.

My bad you are correct. Thanks

[yanks12025]

Gabby ordered 34 inch bats several times between 1925 up to 1932. He then switched it up to 35 inch bats.

It's a really nice bat, just sucks someone wrote 34 on the knob.

[Tightlines]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Gabby ordered 34 inch bats several times between 1925 up to 1932. He then switched it up to 35 inch bats.

It's a really nice bat, just sucks someone wrote 34 on the knob.

Thanks! I know, that written 34 is a mystery. Hopefully one that could be safely removed.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Tightlines

Thanks! I know, that written 34 is a mystery. Hopefully one that could be safely removed.

I wouldn’t remove it

[Tightlines]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

I wouldn’t remove it

I'm not going to attempt anything that's for sure. Ill let the next owner decide that 🙂👍

[Tightlines]

Here are the high res shots of the Gehrig model. Any thoughts on this bat or its value? I've not been able to find as much info on this model.

[Tightlines]

Some more shots of it:

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Tightlines

Some more shots of it:

If I was in an antique store, and I saw a bat marked with "type of bat used by Lou Gehrig," I would assume it is a store model bat. I am not a bat collector, but I would be suspicious of that. Hopefully someone else knows more information.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Tightlines]

Originally Posted by todeen

If I was in an antique store, and I saw a bat marked with "type of bat used by Lou Gehrig," I would assume it is a store model bat. I am not a bat collector, but I would be suspicious of that. Hopefully someone else knows more information.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Yeah I have only found a few things, but this is interesting. Taken from this auction Here
"
Presently, there is no evidence to suggest that Zinn Beck bats (his was a small company) were ever available for sale to the general public (no known advertisements, catalogs, etc.). All of the existing side-written Zinn Beck bats match the precise specifications of other known game bats used by that respective player. That fact strongly suggests that all Zinn Beck bats were made exclusively by custom order for professional use only by the given player. "

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Tightlines

Yeah I have only found a few things, but this is interesting. Taken from this auction Here
"
Presently, there is no evidence to suggest that Zinn Beck bats (his was a small company) were ever available for sale to the general public (no known advertisements, catalogs, etc.). All of the existing side-written Zinn Beck bats match the precise specifications of other known game bats used by that respective player. That fact strongly suggests that all Zinn Beck bats were made exclusively by custom order for professional use only by the given player. "

If I remember correctly, at one point MEARS concluded that a number of Zinn Beck Diamond Ace bats were pro-models/ game used. Troy Kinunen wrote an article about them on the MEARS site about 15 years ago. Has PSA/DNA also been designating these bats as pro-model?

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Tightlines

Yeah I have only found a few things, but this is interesting. Taken from this auction Here

"

Presently, there is no evidence to suggest that Zinn Beck bats (his was a small company) were ever available for sale to the general public (no known advertisements, catalogs, etc.). All of the existing side-written Zinn Beck bats match the precise specifications of other known game bats used by that respective player. That fact strongly suggests that all Zinn Beck bats were made exclusively by custom order for professional use only by the given player. "

Great sleuthing! That would be very exciting if it was a pro model!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Mark

If I remember correctly, at one point MEARS concluded that a number of Zinn Beck Diamond Ace bats were pro-models/ game used. Troy Kinunen wrote an article about them on the MEARS site about 15 years ago. Has PSA/DNA also been designating these bats as pro-model?

I dont think Taube considers them pro models(couldn't find one online that showed a PSA letter). If he does, he'd probably mention in the letter that they might be offered to both the public and pros and that game use by the X player cannot be confirmed. Thats why people send these type of bats to Mears because they will get lettered as game used.

[bgar3]

I am not a bat guy and I may be wrong about this, but I think I remember a Love of the Game auction of a Zinn Gehrig that they had researched and proved had been used by Gehrig. Worth looking up or contacting Love of the Game directly.

[sayhey24]

I think there's a chance that some Zinn Beck bats were used by players, but without iron clad provenance or a photo match, they generally aren't considered game used bats.

Included here is a photo of three Zinn Beck bats I have.
One is a Tris Speaker similar to the Gehrig model. The second bat is a " type of bat used by" Heinie Groh model that was sold by the Johnny Evers Sporting Goods store in Albany, NY , and is marked as such on the barrel.
The third is a post career Zinn Beck H&B model (Beck played in the major leagues) that he for some reason dated 1929. I have a photo of him in his home holding this very bat.

The Gehrig bat sold by Love of the Game was a Hanna Batrite, not a Zinn Beck.


With all that said, the Lou Gehrig bat shown in this thread is an incredibly nice bat that should command a price similar to the aforementioned Ty Cobb. And I still think that the Gabby Hartnett is very likely a gamer as long as there is no sign of an inch mark on the knob.

Great finds by you and your friend!

Greg

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

I think there's a chance that some Zinn Beck bats were used by players, but without iron clad provenance or a photo match, they generally aren't considered game used bats.

Included here is a photo of three Zinn Beck bats I have.
One is a Tris Speaker similar to the Gehrig model. The second bat is a " type of bat used by" Heinie Groh model that was sold by the Johnny Evers Sporting Goods store in Albany, NY , and is marked as such on the barrel.
The third is a post career Zinn Beck H&B model (Beck played in the major leagues) that he for some reason dated 1929. I have a photo of him in his home holding this very bat.

The Gehrig bat sold by Love of the Game was a Hanna Batrite, not a Zinn Beck.


With all that said, the Lou Gehrig bat shown in this thread is an incredibly nice bat that should command a price similar to the aforementioned Ty Cobb. And I still think that the Gabby Hartnett is very likely a gamer as long as there is no sign of an inch mark on the knob.

Great finds by you and your friend!

Greg

The Hartnett is 100% a gamer but Gabby didnt write the 34 on the knob. So it probably saw post professional use.

[JoeDfan]

A Zinn Beck sold in Mears a few years back.
I would think yours might be something like $4k. But you get the right auction, and a couple of crazies who both want it, and who knows???

https://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/...-lot54231.aspx

[JoeDfan]

TOTAL idle speculation; but Gehrig was sometimes referred to as "Buster" by teammates.

If it could be proven that it was related to your "B" on the knob, that would be very interesting.

You would have to get IRONCLAD proof (probably a very clear, unambiguous photo). I have never heard of Gehrig adding letters to the knob of a bat.

Better yet, find a photo of him holding it, and your bat goes from a few thousand to a few hundred thousand.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

I dont think Taube considers them pro models(couldn't find one online that showed a PSA letter). If he does, he'd probably mention in the letter that they might be offered to both the public and pros and that game use by the X player cannot be confirmed. Thats why people send these type of bats to Mears because they will get lettered as game used.

I'm still learning a lot about bats. Who is Taube?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Tightlines]

Thank you all for your super helpful answers!

I just spoke with the gent that I got the bats from. He said he can't remember where the Gehrig came from, but he remembered exactly where he got the Hartnett from. He bought it when Gabby's cocktail lounge/bowling alley closed in Chicago. It was part of the decor in there. I'm not sure what this does for the value of the bat, but it may be in pictures if any exist from that lounge.

[JoeDfan]

Originally Posted by todeen

I'm still learning a lot about bats. Who is Taube?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

John Taube is the principal bat authenticator for PSA, along with Vince Malta.

Troy Kuninen is the authenticator for MEARS.

Those are the primary guys who come to my mind when thinking about expertise in bats, although there were a couple of other guys (Mediema? Bushing? Byington) who do it also, or at least used to, I think.

[Tightlines]

Since this bat was bought from his rec center/ lounge/ pistol range I did some digging, and this book has some pretty interesting notes from that time in his life.
Tracking down someone who used to frequent the establishment before it closed may not be out of the question. Any Chicagoans out there ?

[Tightlines]

I thought I would share this here as well. Another really cool item from the friend that gave me the bats!


Also this picture of this Gehrig bat caught my eye. It almost looks like a B on the knob of his bat, but probably just wishful thinking on my part.

[JoeDfan]

Does the grain along the barrel match up to your bat?

[jpop43]

Joining the party late here, and I'll admit that I'm not a GU bat aficionado.

But if you take the image of the knob of Gehrig bat from the initial post, turn it into a black and white example, and simply rotate it...as you would/could if the bat was in your hands...it looks REALLY similar to the one in Gehrig's hands (above).

I am sure someone with a more expert eye will add to this, but it certainly got more interesting.

[John V]

I wanted to throw these out there regarding Zinn Beck bats being made available to the public and used by the pros.

[JoeDfan]

Originally Posted by jpop43

Joining the party late here, and I'll admit that I'm not a GU bat aficionado.

But if you take the image of the knob of Gehrig bat from the initial post, turn it into a black and white example, and simply rotate it...as you would/could if the bat was in your hands...it looks REALLY similar to the one in Gehrig's hands (above).

I am sure someone with a more expert eye will add to this, but it certainly got more interesting.

+1!!

Not quite proof (yet), but I love to watch this thread!

Great info from John V to remind us that Zinn was also available to the public, so we do have to keep that in mind.

Put up some more photos with it rotated like jpop43 said!

[Tightlines]

Thanks to all of you for chiming in! It could very well be a store model so I have to keep my excitement in check. I wish I could find a clearer version of this picture. It's really hard to tell on this. I've looked at it so many ways to try and confirm or dispute. The knob looks promising, the area on the barrel that I've blown up has me wondering. I can't tell what's going on with it for sure in the photo.

One thing I do find interesting is this quote taken from this article " They went to John Taube, whom Barrows calls “the foremost expert on bat authentication.” Taube, who is based in Margate, NJ, rolled it around in his hands, put it under a microscope, and took in green streaks consistent with scuffs from a Yankee bat-tray of the era. "

The bat has quite a few green streaks on it. Nothing conclusive, but the gears are still turning. I think sending it in for authentication is probably the best thing to do at this point.

[JoeDfan]

Good luck!!!

Either way, you have a KILLER bat there!!!

[Tightlines]

Originally Posted by JoeDfan

Good luck!!!

Either way, you have a KILLER bat there!!!

Thanks so much! I've got an update on the bats.

I sent them both off to PSA for authentication. I received word today that the Gehrig bat is considered a pro model. However, the length doesn't match up with his orders from this period.

The Hartnett on the other hand is everything I had hoped. It's expected to grade at 8.5 - 9. I was told the " 34 " written on the knob is not an issue and was most likely done with some sort of laundry marker so he could tell his 34" bat from his 36".

I just thought I would share this with all who have been following the thread.
Once I receive the full authentication letter I'll share the findings.

Also now that I have had a professional inspect them. I am open to taking offers on both bats.

Thanks again to all who helped me with this process!

[JoeDfan]

Congratulations!!! I think you got some great news!!!
Too bad the Gehrig isn't exactly the length you were looking for, but still a pair of beautiful bats.

I have a Hanna Ruth and a Kren Special Gehrig, and both have identical green rack marks that look very similar to yours (up close, both of mine look kind of greenish blue). I always wondered how many bat racks had the same paint on them, or how significant it might be.

Congrats again! That is very cool.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by Tightlines

Thanks so much! I've got an update on the bats.

I sent them both off to PSA for authentication. I received word today that the Gehrig bat is considered a pro model. However, the length doesn't match up with his orders from this period.

The Hartnett on the other hand is everything I had hoped. It's expected to grade at 8.5 - 9. I was told the " 34 " written on the knob is not an issue and was most likely done with some sort of laundry marker so he could tell his 34" bat from his 36".

I just thought I would share this with all who have been following the thread.
Once I receive the full authentication letter I'll share the findings.

Also now that I have had a professional inspect them. I am open to taking offers on both bats.

Thanks again to all who helped me with this process!

Thats great news for you.

Im shocked he didn't care about the 34 on the knob. Congrats

[Mark]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Thats great news for you.

Im shocked he didn't care about the 34 on the knob.. Congrats

I'm also surprised that he wasn't bothered by the 34, but his thinking makes sense to me. Also news to me that JT is open to Zinn Beck Diamond Ace bats being pro models. Glad to hear about it. (In part because I've got a Frisch model). Of course, he might still be especially wary of saying that any Zinn Beck bat is game used.

[JoeDfan]

Originally Posted by Mark

I'm also surprised that he wasn't bothered by the 34, but his thinking makes sense to me. Also news to me that JT is open to Zinn Beck Diamond Ace bats being pro models. Glad to hear about it. (In part because I've got a Frisch model). Of course, he might still be especially wary of saying that any Zinn Beck bat is game used.

It will be interesting to see the exact wording Taube uses if the OP puts up the PSA letter. I kind of thought the ZB bats were both pro and retail models.

[Tightlines]

Thanks guys!

@JoeDfan @Mark I'll be sure to let you know about the exact findings on the Gehrig. We spoke on the phone, so I don't want to misquote him on the exact wording. I'll confirm that about being called a "pro model. "

We mainly spoke at length about the Hartnett bat. I'll be happy to share his thoughts on the knob and the history of it when it's in writing.

[JoeDfan]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

I dont think Taube considers them pro models(couldn't find one online that showed a PSA letter). If he does, he'd probably mention in the letter that they might be offered to both the public and pros and that game use by the X player cannot be confirmed. Thats why people send these type of bats to Mears because they will get lettered as game used.

I have a couple of bats with Mears letters, and they actually do say the bat was considered both pro and retail, etc. In both cases, the narrative on the letters appeared to be pretty accurate.

[Tightlines]

I thought I would post an update on the Hartnett bat.
It ended up grading GU 9.
Thanks to all of you for your help and suggestions on these bats! I have the LOA on the Hartnett now as well if anyone is interested.

[eastonfalcon19]

If you don't mind sharing the LOA. I would like to see what it says. Congratulations on the bat and grading a 9.