The real, unseen side of The Green New Deal.

[Mark17]

I support all of that because it is logical and true. I do recycle consistently. Plastics in the oceans, for example, are a real problem that needs a solution.

But the whole man made CO2 is cooking the planet schtick is at best, ridiculous, and at worst, a lie designed to frighten people, especially children, to push a socialist agenda. CO2 is not a pollutant - it is plant food. And a better argument can be made that there is not enough of it rather than too much.

If the "green" movement stuck to real problems and proposed logical solutions, and if they left the political agenda out of it, I'd probably be one of them.

[packs]

That is such a small part of the whole that I can't see why you would dismiss everything because you have an issue with one thing. I'm not sure if we agree but I don't think there is anything negative about cutting emissions. Why would you choose to breathe them in? I don't think there is anything negative about curtailing pipelines either. Water is a precious resource.

Just one last point from me: CFC's were banned in 1996 due to the damage they were doing to the ozone layer. Their negative effect on the ozone layer is fact. I would think a depleted ozone layer, and certainly no ozone layer at all, will have an impact on the climate of the planet. I think that demonstrates that man can affect the kind of change we're talking about, even if not specifically through the actions in question. So, with all due respect, I can't agree with anyone who says man's actions can't affect climate change.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Mark17

But the whole man made CO2 is cooking the planet schtick is at best, ridiculous, and at worst, a lie designed to frighten people, especially children, to push a socialist agenda.

The following organizations all believe humans are causing adverse climate change. According to you, they are all "ridiculous" or pushing "a socialist agenda." Hmmm, interesting. American Foresters are potentially socialists. Who knew? Could you please go through the list and let us know which are simply ridiculous and which are dangerously pushing a socialist agenda?

1. American Academy of Pediatrics
2. American Anthropological Association
3. American Association for the Advancement of Science
4. American Association of State Climatologists (AASC)
5. American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians
6. American Astronomical Society
7. American Chemical Society
8. American College of Preventive Medicine
9. American Fisheries Society
10. American Geophysical Union
11. American Institute of Biological Sciences
12. American Institute of Physics
13. American Medical Association
14. American Meteorological Society
15. American Physical Society
16. American Public Health Association
17. American Quaternary Association
18. American Society for Microbiology
19. American Society of Agronomy
20. American Society of Civil Engineers
21. American Society of Plant Biologists
22. American Statistical Association
23. Association of Ecosystem Research Centers
24. Botanical Society of America
25. California Academy of Sciences
26. Crop Science Society of America
27. Ecological Society of America
28. Environmental Protection Agency
29. Federation of American Scientists
30. Geological Society of America
31. National Academy of Sciences, United States of America
32. National Aeronautics and Space Administration
33. National Association of Geoscience Teachers
34. National Association of State Foresters
35. National Center for Atmospheric Research
36. National Council of Engineers Australia
37. National Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research, New Zealand
38. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
39. National Research Council
40. National Science Foundation
41. Natural Science Collections Alliance
42. New York Academy of Sciences
43. Oklahoma Climatological Survey
44. Pew Center on Global Climate Change
45. Scientific Committee on Solar-Terrestrial Physics
46. Scripps Institution of Oceanography
47. Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
48. Society of American Foresters
49. Soil Science Society of America
50. University Corporation for Atmospheric Research
51. Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
52. Woods Hole Research Center

Originally Posted by Mark17

CO2 is not a pollutant - it is plant food. And a better argument can be made that there is not enough of it rather than too much.

Sh!t is used as plant food and is not a pollutant. You obviously want more of that also since you (and especially Irv) seem to spend a lot of time peddling it.

[Mark17]

The title of this thread is: The real, unseen side of The Green New Deal. This is a specific piece of proposed legislation. The New York Times quotes from the text of The Green New Deal:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/c...s-answers.html

The goal of the Green New Deal is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in order to avoid the worst consequences of climate change while also trying to fix societal problems like economic inequality and racial injustice.

You can pretend really really hard that the part I have bolded is science and not a political agenda if you want.

As far as all those organizations you list, that is what has been consistent in your posts. You keep referring to other peoples' opinions, rather than thinking for yourself. Had you been my classmate in 6th grade, in 1970, you, like me, would've been afraid of global COOLING, because that's what all those scientists were insisting was happening. And people who didn't believe them then were stupid.

Somehow you, and they, are able to conveniently forget all the times they have been so dramatically wrong with their predictions, while insisting their NEXT predictions will be right. So far, they just never are.

[JOEMLM]

i have shared this video with every tree hugger i could, many cried. the deep state used the left and greenies to perform another hoax, one of many. what people missed from the docu-film is that, our tax money is used to build those tree burning plants, obviously to scam a tree hugger, you cannot call the plants what they are, 'tree burning plants' they do not burn trees according to the liars involved and the brainwashed green new stealers, who believe the group think, they burn 'bio-mass' = WRONG! this is another example and proof the media is fake news. also the idea that there is a left and a right, in politics, nope, wrong again, they are all crooks shouting, 'look over there' 'we are good', THEY are bad, do not look at our wealth, i never had a job,' 'i earned it'... someone in the thread shared shared a meme, also, not true, greta is not a high schooler, she is diagnosed retarded, and 'home schooled' and about aoc, also repeating her lies, she was not a bartender, she was fired from that job after a few days or hours according to some people. she could not make any mixed drinks, just ask her for an any drink recipe, standing behind a bar does not make you a bartender, she was actually a waitress, and always has been! among her many lies, i can go on...they are deforesting america to burn the trees for energy, as the docu-film shows, they are actually creating MORE pollution just shipping the trees to get burned. again, show the movie to a tree hugger or enviromentalist, the green new deal is another new world order lie. ask any of them, 'CO2 is the problem', 'too much C.O.2 is causing global warming' = what is the only thing that eats CO2 to survive? TREES! they are actually making the CO2 problem worse with every tree they burn. according to gibbs, one of the people behind the docu-films, they had hours of footage they did not use. they left out a lot of stuff, i wonder what.

just like the current madness in the u.s., especially in illinois and chicago, the governor of illinois is funneling millions of your tax dollars, the 'covid aid relief' funds through businesses he owns and some charities he started. the governor and mayor of chicago, i call #lockdownnazi's... chicago beaches are still closed and not opening soon. all other cities have opened beaches to a degree, even NYC, the worst hit with covid, our leaders say it is all due to 'the science', since when in a free country do we take 'ORDERS' from public SERVANTS? several countries never locked down. ever been to japan? the cities there are bigger and more crowded than you can imagine, they did not lockdown, it has nothing to do with a virus that is less dangerous than the flu
fyi: you can pay a scientist to say anything you want, for example, are eggs good and/or safe to eat? just look up what 'scientists' say about that, and the FAKE research they use to prove it!

in school i was going to get a science degree, i even went on several 'field research trips' i was a scientist! lol we did a lot of 'research' too, we had the 'latest tech' = freezers full of beer and booze! we had 'cases of supplies' = several cases of vodka, whiskey, etc, etc. we did a lot of 'research' lounging at a beach resort, partially funded by the school, and government grants = your tax dollars. the science class i was in had 8 guys for every 2 girls. on the every field trip, we had up to 8 girls for every guy, and i can tell you for a fact the professor was banging some of them, i can tell you for a fact, we did no research, and i can tell you someone did write a 'research paper' documenting what we did = all lies because we did nothing! and yes, you guessed, it was peer-reviewed! does anyone recall the research trip that went to the south pole to prove the ice cap was gone? remember what happened to that ship? it STUCK in the ice! did you know that ship had some great supplies, store rooms and coolers full off booze and several pounds of assorted pills and drugs were found when the ship was finally recovered after everyone on board was rescued and removed from the 'research vessel' = a charter cruise ship! it was nothing more than a taxpayer funded party cruise!

turn off the tv and read a book, may i recommend 'profiles in corruption' it shows you how some politicians and their families are super-rich and many of them never did a days work in their lives. it shows how they are all so rich, yes, you guessed, they raise your taxes to line their wallets. read the book for proof, if you want a copy i will send you a digital one, i actually bought several copies of the printed book but gave them all away already, i am going to buy multiples of this docu-fim too, and give those away too.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Mark17

The title of this thread is: The real, unseen side of The Green New Deal. This is a specific piece of proposed legislation. The New York Times quotes from the text of The Green New Deal:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/c...s-answers.html

The goal of the Green New Deal is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in order to avoid the worst consequences of climate change while also trying to fix societal problems like economic inequality and racial injustice.

You can pretend really really hard that the part I have bolded is science and not a political agenda if you want.

You can try to change the subject all you want, but you and others have been arguing that climate change is a hoax/schtick/lie. That it's "ridiculous."

You even said, "In a nutshell, this is what the whole man made global warming movement is all about." Not the "Green New Deal" but the whole man made global warming movement. You'd be telling a lie if you now want to claim you were only talking about the Green New Deal.

Originally Posted by Mark17

As far as all those organizations you list, that is what has been consistent in your posts.

Trying to change the subject again I see.

You said: "But the whole man made CO2 is cooking the planet schtick is at best, ridiculous, and at worst, a lie designed to frighten people, especially children, to push a socialist agenda."

I listed those organizations because I was curious as to which are simply ridiculous and which are pushing a socialist agenda. Those are your words. So, which are ridiculous and which are pushing a socialist agenda? You seem to be an expert on ferreting out people's hidden agenda.

Originally Posted by Mark17

You keep referring to other peoples' opinions, rather than thinking for yourself.

Don't forget, I'm just a sheep. Not a single original thought by me in this entire thread. When I refuted your bad math earlier I luckily found a website that had already refuted your post. Saved me from having to think for myself. Also, I'm surprised that you would value my opinion over the opinion of people who actually work in the field of climate change.

Originally Posted by Mark17

Had you been my classmate in 6th grade, in 1970, you, like me, would've been afraid of global COOLING, because that's what all those scientists were insisting was happening. And people who didn't believe them then were stupid.

Since you didn't go back to post 49, let me post it again:

Who's "they?" Not the scientists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB3S0...8FA33&index=37

An excellent paper in the American Meteorological Society (2008)

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf...2008BAMS2370.1

A couple highlights:

"One way to determine what scientists think is to ask them. This was actually done in 1977 following the severe 1976/77 winter in the eastern United States. "Collectively," the 24 eminent climatologists responding to the survey "tended to anticipate a slight global warming rather than a cooling" (National Defense University Research Directorate 1978)."

A survey was done on literature published in the '70s. The survey looked for "papers projecting climate change on, or even just discussing an aspect of climate forcing relevant to, time scales from decades to a century." It found 71 papers. "The survey identified only 7 articles indicating cooling compared to 44 indicating warming." The other 20 were neutral. Six times as many scientists in the '70s were predicting warming versus cooling.

Originally Posted by Mark17

Somehow you, and they, are able to conveniently forget all the times they have been so dramatically wrong with their predictions, while insisting their NEXT predictions will be right. So far, they just never are.

Who is this "they" that "have been so dramatically wrong with their predictions"? And, what were their predictions?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

You can try to change the subject all you want



Trying to change the subject again I see.

What irony. I had made the decision to not participate in this thread anymore but when I saw these from Captain TDS I had to respond. Unless I missed a post of yours, and I don’t believe I did, when have you ever addressed the subject of this thread? It is about scumbag millionaires and billionaires profiting from a green energy scam by clearcutting whole forests and destroying the animals living in them in order to line their own pockets and give the false impression that they are actually doing something good. ETA: If you want to spew your MAN MADE CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL AND I WILL MAKE YOU SUBMIT! crap then start your own thread.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

What irony.

What irony indeed!

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I had made the decision to not participate in this thread anymore but when I saw these from Captain TDS I had to respond.

Oooh, I’m a Captain now!! Last time I was only a Mr. I’m moving up in the world!!!

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Unless I missed a post of yours, and I don’t believe I did, when have you ever addressed the subject of this thread?

Let’s examine this belief of yours, shall we? When did I enter this thread? Post 22 where I clearly addressed the movie which was the only subject the OP wrote about in the first post. The OP wanted everyone to see the movie. Someone with your name even responded to my post in Post 23. In Post 26 I again talked about the movie. Another belief shot to hell.

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

It is about scumbag millionaires and billionaires profiting from a green energy scam by clearcutting whole forests and destroying the animals living in them in order to line their own pockets and give the false impression that they are actually doing something good.

Then why did you and Dale start talking about the hoax of climate change?

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

ETA: If you want to spew your MAN MADE CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL AND I WILL MAKE YOU SUBMIT! crap then start your own thread.

When did this thread veer into a discussion of climate change? Post 4. “Biggest scam of the last fifty years.” Please note who wrote that. Is he a relative of yours? What made me think Post 4 was about climate change and not the movie? Post 8, “You got it, Cliff. I've never believed in Global Warming”. Please note who wrote that, the OP. When did climate change next come up? Post 10, ”a lifelong leftist who has bought into everything about climate change.” Oops, there’s your relative again. We have to wait all the way until Post 11 when we are regaled with this,” Start with a big lie that will get everyone, (or most) on board, with Global warming.” The OP again. As I said above, I didn’t enter the thread until Post 22, well after you and the OP were discussing climate change. Did I “spew” forth anything that claimed climate change is real in that post? No. I merely corrected you two who appeared to be saying the movie (the subject of the first post) said climate change is a hoax. After all, the subject of the thread was the movie and you two were acting like it was saying climate change is wrong. The movie does no such thing. In Post 26 I again talked about the movie. Did I defend or attack climate change in any posts up to this point? No. If I’m wrong, please point out where I said anything about climate change being real before Post 26. In Post 28 you didn’t admit you were claiming the movie denied climate change, but you did say, “It [the movie] has nothing to do with if global warming is real or not.” At that point I was ready to walk away. I even ignored Dale (the OP) in Post 30 where he directly asked me, “Do you not see, right from the get go from Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" to everything in between to current day, has all been designed to gut hook, manipulate and fool you into believing Man Made Global warming?” I also ignored some other swipes at climate change after that. I jumped in (Post 50) to counter the myths that only certain impoverished Asian countries are causing the “waste islands” in the oceans (a misdirection of the main subject not started by me, but perpetuated by YOU in Post 37). I jumped in (Post 49) to counter the myth that scientists were claiming a global cool down in the 70s. Again, a misdirection not started by me. I even ignored your juvenile attempt to goad me back in to the thread in Post 61 with, “Just let the thread die, all you are going to do is conjure up Mr. TDS again with all of his nonsense.”

So, when did I begin my defense of climate change? Post 67. 67. Why did I write Post 67? In direct response to Post 65. Let that sink in when considering what you wrote, “If you want to spew your MAN MADE CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL AND I WILL MAKE YOU SUBMIT! crap then start your own thread.” Why do you insinuate that I hijacked this thread? That is ironic.

Furthermore, “MAN MADE CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL AND I WILL MAKE YOU SUBMIT!” Please, oh please, explain to me why my posts are “I WILL MAKE YOU SUBMIT!” and the others aren’t? What? Is it First Amendment rights only for those who believe like you do? Everyone else needs to STFU? You don’t like what I’m writing and so therefore it is “I WILL MAKE YOU SUBMIT!”? What exactly is it that makes you become unhinged enough to “spew” that my counterarguments to other posts should be considered “I WILL MAKE YOU SUBMIT!”?

[Cliff Bowman]

Just as I figured, you still refuse to address the whole point of this thread, millionaires and billionaires profiting off of the sickening clearcutting of forests in the USA and rain forests worldwide and the devastation to the animals living in those forests all in the false pretext that they are actually doing something noble. Good job. When I said it was the biggest hoax of the last fifty years I wasn't referring to whether or not climate change was real, I was referring to the scumbags making obscene profits off of it.