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Really? Well, that's news to me. Maybe I've been out of the loop. The way I've always seen it, is that that ball was of course much livelier than the dead ball of "The Dead Ball Era". Today's ball is just hopped up. Boring home runs, and the game almost looks like a video game. The only thing that might be exciting about it, to me, is there can sometimes be some excellent infield play.
Last edited by jgannon; 07-11-2020 at 08:29 PM. |
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It is not revisionist history to say he is not the greatest lefty of all time. He has never been the consensus pick (there isn't a consensus pick at all, really). |
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Again, my original advocating for Koufax was not to definitively say he was the greatest lefty of all time. It's really impossible to say who was "the best". Why do we have to have a "best" anyway? At any rate, you have the different eras and so many different factors affecting how the players performed. I just think there was a bit of disparagement toward Koufax on the thread, and that Koufax wasn't getting his due. Last edited by jgannon; 07-11-2020 at 09:34 PM. |
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It is hardly disparagement to say he is not the best lefty ever. |
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I agree with taking the playoffs (and titles) a lot more into consideration too.
This obviously greatly favors Koufax. In addition to the other numbers and WS championships mentioned, he gave up just one earned run each in his only playoff losses. Unreal. Lefty Grove was great in the postseason too. On the flip side, Randy Johnson had the one dominating run for two playoff series and got the one ring from it. Other than that, he struggled badly in the postseason and went 2-9. Carlton would labor in the playoffs and walk some guys that he normally wouldn't, and was 6-6 with a 3.26. And naturally Kershaw's awful playoff troubles don't need further mention. Then there's Spahn, who naturally was the exact same guy in the playoffs as otherwise. That guy was a robot set to win 6 of every 10 games and give you a 3.00 ERA, regardless of what planet he was on. |
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The 1960's were the first decade to produce 5 300 home run hitters adding Frank Robinson and Willie McCovey. So you get 3 exclusive NL players hitting over 300 in the decade and one who played half the decade in the NL. If you look for 250 Home run hitters you add Ernie Banks, Orlando Cepeda and Frank Howard, and Ron Santo (Billy Williams hit 249) to the ranks of NL players (Howard about half his total as a teammate of Koufax's but making the argument that the league wasn't weak) All of the aforementioned players would have finished top 6 in the 1950's and top 5 in the 1970's in all of MLB. League-wide batting average in the 1940's was .275, 1950's .276, 1960's .272, 1970's .272 and 1980's .273. The average home runs hit by a player in the Majors (approximations since I had to read them off a graph that didn't label it's data points) 1920's 6.8, 1930's 9, 1940's 8.5, 1950's 15.5, 1960's 16.1, 1970's 14.2, 1980's 14.5 This myth that the 1960's was a desert of great hitting league wide is just that. There was, in essence, one anomalous year, at which time Koufax was already retired (can you imagine what he would've done that year???) I'm not saying this makes Koufax the greatest lefty of all time. I am merely pointing out a fallacy that seems to persist for some reason not even remotely backed up by facts.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 07-19-2020 at 07:36 AM. |
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It's not a myth that offense was at a low point in the '60s. |
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__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
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__________________
Tony Biviano |
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Look at the runs scored per game. Home Runs remained; total offense declined significantly. I am not the first, or even the 10,000th to refer to it as a second deadball era as a result. Is it LITERALLY a deadball era? No, but neither was the original. We can call it whatever word you want to denote a low run environment. During Koufax's peak years, NL offense was in a decline. This is a fact. Ty Cobb hit almost .400 every year, but that doesn't mean the deadball era wasn't a low run environment. Runs per game per team in the NL during the postwar era, using 1963 as Koufax's breakout mega season (though he had an excellent 1962 as well, it breaks down very similarly each year you use as he had a very short peak and all of it was in a pitching dominated era): 1953: 4.8 1963: 3.8 1973: 4.15 1983: 4.1 1993: 4.49 2003: 4.61 2013: 4.00 Can we stop debating things that are easily proven by even a cursory look at the numbers in this thread? |
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Another way to think about this.
You are a manager and you are getting 1 lefty pitcher for 15-20 Years. Who do you want? Remember your job is on the line. No chance you are picking Koufax. (and don't say well if I was managing for 4 years I'd take Koufax.....because then you can say well if I'm managing for 1 year I'd take so and so.....if you were a manager would you want to manage for 1 year, 4 years or 20 years?.....uh huh) Last edited by Shoeless Moe; 07-20-2020 at 03:25 PM. |
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