Best lefty off all time? My vote is Koufax!

[packs]

Contemporaries in the sense that they were in their primes at the same time. I would not say Gehrig and DiMaggio are contemporaries just because some seasons overlapped. And like I said, Drysdale and Gomez pitched the same number of seasons.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

Contemporaries in the sense that they were in their primes at the same time. I would not say Gehrig and DiMaggio are contemporaries just because some seasons overlapped.

1922-1935
1925-1941

They overlapped for 11 seasons. Vance's peak years were 1924-1931. Only one of them was Grove not in the Majors as a full time pitcher too. Grove's peak was 1926-1939; his peak began 2 years after Vance's, overlapped for 6 seasons, and then Grove had a long, productive career that Vance did not. Most of their best seasons overlap, and pretty much all of Vance's productive career except for one season.

Gehrig: 1923-1939
Dimaggio: 1936-1951

Grove started 3 years after Vance, Dimaggio 13 years after Gehrig.

There have to be better arguments than here than denying timelines which are easily available.

[packs]

Originally Posted by G1911

1922-1935
1925-1941

They overlapped for 11 seasons. Vance's peak years were 1924-1931. Only one of them was Grove not in the Majors as a full time pitcher too. Grove's peak was 1926-1939; his peak began 2 years after Vance's, overlapped for 6 seasons, and then Grove had a long, productive career that Vance did not. Most of their best seasons overlap, and pretty much all of Vance's productive career except for one season.

Gehrig: 1923-1939
Dimaggio: 1936-1951

Grove started 3 years after Vance, Dimaggio 13 years after Gehrig.

There have to be better arguments than here than denying timelines which are easily available.

Haha ok. Let's talk about time. Grove won 9 ERA titles, 7 in the decade of the 30s. Vance won 3 ERA titles, 1 in the decade of the 30s. Grove won almost 200 games in the decade of the 30s and pitched in over 350 of them. Vance won 50 games in the decade of the 30s and pitched in 165 games. Dazzy Vance won 7 straight strike out crowns, 0 in the decade of the 30s.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

Haha ok. Let's talk about time. Grove won 9 ERA titles, 7 in the decade of the 30s. Vance won 3 ERA titles, 1 in the decade of the 30s. Grove won almost 200 games in the decade of the 30s and pitched in over 350 of them. Vance won 50 games in the decade of the 30s and pitched in 165 games. Dazzy Vance won 7 straight strike out crowns, 0 in the decade of the 30s.

Vance had a short career, like Koufax (though for very different reasons and in a very different pattern). This is what keeps him form being in the conversation of the best ever.

However, as all of his good years except for 1 overlap with Grove's career, how can we pretend he is not a contemporary?

[packs]

I just explained it to you. Unless you think Grove's prime was in the 20s and not the 30s.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

I just explained it to you. Unless you think Grove's prime was in the 20s and not the 30s.

Grove's prime begins in 1926, when he won the ERA crown. It ended in 1939, because he had a very long prime (hence why many of us rank him higher than 5 years of Koufax. Vance is a contemporary, though Vance burned out sooner (because he didn't reach the majors for real until he was 31 years old).

Vance's career is shorter for Grove's. But for almost all of his prime years, he was an exact direct contemporary of Grove. Are we really going to argue that 1924 alone means he is not a contemporary of Grove?

[packs]

Vance was a guy who was still pitching. He was no longer Dazzy Vance. Grove is clearly the pitcher of the 30s, because that is the decade dominated. No one refers to Grove as the pitcher of the 20s. You COULD make an argument that Vance was one of the best pitchers of the 20s. There is no argument for Vance in the 30s. Therefore, prime years are obviously different.