A Player Passing Away & Selling Etiquette

[mintacular]

Was wondering if there was an unwritten hobby rule about how long to wait to sell a card of a player that has recently passed away (as I have such a card). I recall early this year that when Kobe passed many speculators started to quickly list cards with inflated prices to take advantage of the new interest in Kobe cards--and that bothered me as I thought it was a bit classless and greedy. Thanks for your opinion.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by mintacular

Was wondering if there was an unwritten hobby rule about how long to wait to sell a card of a player that has recently passed away (as I have such a card). I recall early this year that when Kobe passed many speculators started to quickly list cards with inflated prices to take advantage of the new interest in Kobe cards--and that bothered me as I thought it was a bit classless and greedy. Thanks for your opinion.

By definition doesn't selling a card involve a bit of greed?

The best time to sell is when interest is high, and interest is never higher than when somebody famous dies.

[iwantitiwinit]

When you sell a card aren't you trying to realize the most profit possible? I say unless you're related to the player the proper ediquette is immediately following the service and burial.

[Snapolit1]

Don’t think the athlete cares much. And the family, to the extent they are aware of the secondary market on cards and paraphernalia, would prob be either completely indifferent or thrilled.

[Koufax32fan]

This is not an ethical issue. It is unethical to purchase the autograph of recently deceased individual? The goods involved in our transactions are, by definition, not necessities. As long as the buyer and seller are honest with each other and treat each other as expected and appropriate to the situation, then they are acting ethically.

If Kobe's death (or Seaver's or Brock's) prompts interest and you want to sell, then sell. Or, if you want to buy, then buy. The same goes for getting a 3,000 strikeout or hit or being elected to the hall of fame.

[Mike D.]

When a player passes, the interest spikes. Honestly, that’s how I knew Seaver had passed. Two low-cost lots of his cards I’d had listed for months sold within 30 min of each other. I was like “oh oh”. Sure enough I hit ESPN and there it was.

Reminds me of the day I flipped on the radio in the car and started working through the local FM channels. When I hit the 4th station playing “My Sweet Lord”, I knew George Harrison had passed away.

[Bpm0014]

“Mickey Mantle don’t care about you. Why should you care about him?” “We’ll see if your father can’t pay the rent, go ask Mickey Mantle. See what he tells you...”

[RL]

If someone buys cards as a "investment", makes perfect sense to sell cards when interest in the player picks up.

[Section103]

Do as you wish. The player has other things to worry about (or maybe not, who knows) and the family doesnt care. I think its possible to be a bit "splashy" or sensationalist in selling anything related to a recently passed athlete, but as long as you're doing so within your own comfort zone....go ahead.

[Steve D]

Personally, I've never understood why a retired player's cards (non-autographed) see a big spike when the player dies. Supply isn't affected at all, in fact, cards of them will continue to be made; so supply can still meet demand. Why anyone would pay an inflated price for the cards is beyond my comprehension.

Autographs, on the other hand, are completely different. Supply is abruptly cut off, so with the increased demand, and no corresponding increase in supply, prices will increase and stay at a higher level in the future.

That said, it is the "free enterprise" system, and a seller should "strike while the iron is hot" so to speak. If someone wants to pay your price, that's entirely up to them.

Steve

[mintacular]

I wasn't concerned about the player or family caring so much more so that you sell in a short window where the collectors heart strings are pulled and wham! there you are with "x" card with double the price sticker I'm surprised how nonchalant the reactions are so far, perhaps I'm naive

[Rich Klein]

I actually wrote an article on this subject -- I think I covered most of the options. Please note it was based more towards modern players as that is the readership.

https://gogts.net/kleins-korner-how-...-in-the-hobby/

Regards
Rich

[ALR-bishop]

Maybe we should ask Cole Bartiromo, aka dollarscholar, of Topps 1952 Tony Bartirome fame

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by Koufax32fan

This is not an ethical issue. It is unethical to purchase the autograph of recently deceased individual? The goods involved in our transactions are, by definition, not necessities. As long as the buyer and seller are honest with each other and treat each other as expected and appropriate to the situation, then they are acting ethically.

If Kobe's death (or Seaver's or Brock's) prompts interest and you want to sell, then sell. Or, if you want to buy, then buy. The same goes for getting a 3,000 strikeout or hit or being elected to the hall of fame.

this is all true. However, it is unethical to sell an autographed item of a deceased player that is signed after the players' death.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by mintacular

Was wondering if there was an unwritten hobby rule about how long to wait to sell a card of a player that has recently passed away (as I have such a card). I recall early this year that when Kobe passed many speculators started to quickly list cards with inflated prices to take advantage of the new interest in Kobe cards--and that bothered me as I thought it was a bit classless and greedy. Thanks for your opinion.

I think based on the response of peers, 36 hours is the proper waiting time. One day to honor the dead and allow a moment of silence - so as not to feel unethical about your decision to sell. And the next 12 hours to list the item.

[drcy]

There is no rule.

That some people don't like it or complain about it doesn't make it a rule nor is proof that their opinion is in the majority.

Some people complain when someone "outs" an ongoing auciton, but that doesn't make it a rule or a board rule. We've never even had a poll about Net54 members' on the topic so don't even know prevaling opinion. Though you will get some people mad at you if you do it.

Though there are some offical board rules.

[glynparson]

When other people
Start paying your bills they can start telling you when you should or shouldn’t sell something. Until then do what you are comfortable with.

[lowpopper]

Sell immediately. It’s memorabilia, not crime scene evidence or anything directly correlated to their passing. Don’t let others guilt you into not selling something when it’s hot.

[rhettyeakley]

Not really an ethical dilemma in my opinion. I know that as soon as a player passes away any autographs that I have in my ebay store get snatched up super fast. I learned that Al Kaline had passed away a little while ago as between working on patients I happened to look at my phone and noticed I had sold 5-6 different signed Kaline cards within a 15 minute period and didn't even have to look at the news, I knew what that meant. Same thing happened the other day with Hockey player Dale Hawerchuk.

I think the only unethical thing could be to list at an astronomical price (10-20x what they were going for previous) to try to cash in on the craze, even that is a bit debatable.

[bnorth]

The only unethical thing I can think of is canceling winning bids to relist the item at a much higher price. Selling ASAP is only good business.

[brianp-beme]

Nothing unethical, just be respectful if creating a new listing. To avoid this issue altogether, only collect and sell PreWW2 cards, as the players are all gone now.

Brian

[steve B]

Inflated prices because someone died is a very old thing in the hobby.

The first time I saw it was with Jim Gilliam.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear it had happened much earlier.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

A few years ago I bought a collection of autographed cards. I listed a bunch online at fixed price. I can always tell when someone dies because all of the players cards sell immediately.

If you have mixed feelings about it, do what feels right.

[1880nonsports]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

“Mickey Mantle don’t care about you. Why should you care about him?” “We’ll see if your father can’t pay the rent, go ask Mickey Mantle. See what he tells you...”

[TUM301]

Kryptonite............ !!!!!

[Bpm0014]

Kryptonite............ !!!!!

Eddie Mush hahahahaha

[mintacular]

After some thinking, I'm going to wait a minimum of 30 days. I think that's a fair time period, if I lose a few bucks that's ok,--I think waiting some time shows some respect--I don't think profiteering is the way to go while the body is still warm, so to speak. Don't want the reputation of being a death merchant, JMO

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by mintacular

After some thinking, I'm going to wait a minimum of 30 days. I think that's a fair time period, if I lose a few bucks that's ok,--I think waiting some time shows some respect--I don't think profiteering is the way to go while the body is still warm, so to speak. Don't want the reputation of being a death merchant, JMO

I think the same way as you, it's profiting off of someone's death, but doing it while knowing that their passing is the reason you're getting the extra money. Instead of mourning the loss, you're thinking about how their death benefits you. I couldn't do that and I too am surprised at how nonchalant everyone is here about it, but to each his own. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, it's just not for me.

[Tyruscobb]

The fans, through their entertainment dollars, make these men multi-millionaires. I don’t think they give two $hi+s if those same fans make a few bucks, selling their baseball cards, when they die. I wouldn’t worry about it.

If they are looking down, they probably enjoy seeing their cards’ increased demand. This is a testament and tribute to their ball playing greatest. Their friends and family probably also enjoy seeing renewed interest in their lost loved one. Again, it’s a testament to them and their greatness.

You did not create the increased demand, but should increase the supply to ensure all these mens’ fans have the opportunity to pay tribute and remember these great men.

[drcy]

I fail to see how putting up an item of someone who has just died is unethical or unseemly.

I can see an argument if there is price gouging.

My opinion, of course, and, of course, if a seller chooses not to that it fine.

[Mark17]

I've been to see Bud Grant, who's in his 90s, to get some of my Metropolitan seats and seat parts autographed. I've visited him about 4 or 5 times. At one point, in the middle of signing about 50 seat backs, he paused and smiled and said, "I suppose these will go up in value after I die,"

I replied, "When you die, there will be a week or two when these things will really sell well. There will be lots of tributes to you here in Minnesota, and definitely a big spike in demand. And after that, demand will remain strong because you're an icon in this state, and in the Hall of Fame.

Then, trying to keep a straight face, I said, "So.... how you feeling?"

[todeen]

Lol

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[todeen]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I think the same way as you, it's profiting off of someone's death, but doing it while knowing that their passing is the reason you're getting the extra money. Instead of mourning the loss, you're thinking about how their death benefits you. I couldn't do that and I too am surprised at how nonchalant everyone is here about it, but to each his own. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, it's just not for me.

You have to do what's right by you. You look in the mirror each morning and night, nobody else gets to see the reflection. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with your choice. However, 30 days is a long time to wait, although I'm not arguing with you. Death is not very respected in our culture. Individuals only get a MOMENT of silence, and then it returns to life as usual. I think even if you waited 7 days it would obviously set you apart from profiteers.

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[z28jd]

I wasn't actually talking about the specific amount of days, rather the idea of immediately profiting off of someone's death. I don't know that there is an ideal specific amount of time to wait, because the general idea would still be the same if you're just waiting out of respect, but still have the desire to make extra money. I also don't have a stock of items specifically to sell, so I'm not the best person to ask. If I ran a business buying/selling cards, then I'd put more thought into how long to wait.

I just know that I personally avoid the initial desire to capitalize on death. It's not my first thought or even a thought in most cases. I know that for certain now because I do have a large lot of Tom Seaver cards I bought about 15 years ago with the idea to resell in smaller lots/individually and until I read this post, it never even crossed my mind to sell them.

I used to see that a baseball player had died, then check Ebay for the vultures, but I haven't done that in many years because I realized that it just annoyed me every time.

As I said though, it's all personal opinion and just because I feel a certain way, it doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by todeen

You have to do what's right by you. You look in the mirror each morning and night, nobody else gets to see the reflection. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with your choice. However, 30 days is a long time to wait, although I'm not arguing with you. Death is not very respected in our culture. Individuals only get a MOMENT of silence, and then it returns to life as usual. I think even if you waited 7 days it would obviously set you apart from profiteers.

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[Case12]

Just be respectful about it.

[scmavl]

I am kind of surprised to see so many folks that are fairly unopinionated about this. I remember 2-3 years ago a player had died (honestly can't recall who) and the next day or so a member listed a few items of that player and was BLASTED for it. "Jeez, he's not even cold yet" type comments.

I understand if all of a sudden someone was asking $1500 for a signed cut of Lou Brock the day after he died, but if asking fairly reasonable prices just sell when you can sell.

[drcy]

Baseball card collecting is mentioned nowhere in the Bibles, so you're all going to Hell anyway.

[brianp-beme]

I think you meant "...going to Hell, Amway."

Brian (life is good at the top of the pyramid)

[JollyElm]

I'm of two minds on the subject. People can do whatever the heck they want with their own stuff. It's Business 101 - if you think you can take advantage of a situation (the death of a player) to make a sale and earn a profit, then it's undoubtedly a smart play to do so.

However, me personally? When I see the immediate, rapacious listings on ebay following a player's death (like Seaver and Brock recently), and all of the flowery verbiage the sellers throw into their listings, it pisses me off to no end, so I just shake my head and zip past their listings, paying them no mind.

[Leon]

Generally speaking the body should be cold before the sales start. That is not a mandatory requirement though.

And yes, being respectful seems like the only requirement nowadays.