Factory cuts vs trimming

[samosa4u]

I'm not sure what you're asking here, but let me say this: the SlabGate scandal has made me paranoid. If I see a card that looks even slightly small, then I won't touch it with a ten-foot pole. Whether it came out of the factory looking that way, or if it was done in somebody's basement, is totally irrelevant to me.

Another thing I want to mention is how PSA has different-sized holders. Some can be slightly bigger than others. So, I don't judge a card based on how much "space" is surrounding it. I just study the borders instead.

Sorry if my post didn't answer your question.

[Tomman1961]

Many of my 1939 Playball cards are crazy oversized. Fodder for someone who would love to trim them. If I took all my Diamond Stars to the calipers they are all over the place- the small ones show a lot of corner wear. The cutting technology of the times. By what era would we expect the dimensions to be dead on?

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I'm not sure what you're asking here, but let me say this: the SlabGate scandal has made me paranoid. If I see a card that looks even slightly small, then I won't touch it with a ten-foot pole. Whether it came out of the factory looking that way, or if it was done in somebody's basement, is totally irrelevant to me.

Another thing I want to mention is how PSA has different-sized holders. Some can be slightly bigger than others. So, I don't judge a card based on how much "space" is surrounding it. I just study the borders instead.

Sorry if my post didn't answer your question.

Apologies if I wasn't clear. It's just seemed like when a card measures short, people are much quicker to think "trimmed" instead of the factory cut, especially after slabgate. But with how often factory cuts can apparently be off, I wondered if the cut is usually the culprit (and the trimming issue in the hobby isn't quite as rampant as assumed.)

And like you said, the different sized slabs can factor in to how something comes off at first glance. Though when I was comparing my '71 T Brooks to PSA versions, these were the two most recent PSA 7 sales. The second card looks clearly smaller L/R, with or without the slabs

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Topps-...-/383777188192

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Topps-...-/324302009620

[Johnny630]

A lot of vending cards have been notorious for being factory short. Also many dead on solid 9’s and 10’s have been pulled from vendors over the years.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

A lot of vending cards have notorious for being factory short.

Did not know that about vending boxes. It explains plenty of what remained unanswered to me.

Thanks Johnny

[jchcollins]

My experience at least as of late would tend to agree with the OP's notion that normal factory size variance (more common than many would imagine with vintage, especially when we are talking less than 1/32 of an inch...) is more apt to be viewed as possible trimming - to the point sometimes of paranoia. Cards coming out of packs with slightly different dimensions is not something that ended with tobacco cards. I've had several different '58 Topps cards just in the past year that are too big and will not fit into One Touch holders. I'm not sure PSA's "Min Size" can be much of a useful yardstick at all; the hobby is rife with stories of how one card was originally graded and then got returned a Min Size with an effort to get a bump, or vice versa. PSA misses both trimming AND factory discrepancies quite frequently, IMO. I'm not sure I have a solution to the problem, other than buy the card and not the slab, and make sure you are happy with the card in the slab regardless of things like the grade on the flip or movement / lack of movement in the slab. Just as an aside, simply because a card moves a bit in the holder is not necessarily indicative of trimming or a factory size problem. For some, the late 60's through the early 70's in particular - the card stock was simply thinner, and cards even with perfectly normal dimensions will move somewhat. I'm not sure I've ever seen a 1970 Topps card that remained perfectly still in a PSA holder.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Did not know that about vending boxes. It explains plenty of what remained unanswered to me.

Thanks Johnny

Your Welcome Buddy

[steve B]

Size consistency would depend on the set.

Score was die cut, and should pretty much always be the right size.

Topps switched at some point. I think probably with the switch to different cardstock in 92, although a lot of their newer stuff is both knife and die cut.

Any cards cut by hand will have some differences, depending on how careful the cutter operator was. 41 Goudey being probably the worst.
Even high production cards cut with a slitter can be undersize/oversize if the cutting wheels aren't spaced correctly.

[Bigdaddy]

One would think that with a high enough magnification, identifying trimmed cards could be detected, at least to a high degree. Looking at any given edge, I envision differences in color (due to accumulated dirt, oil, etc.) from handling the cards for many years, indentations, fiber orientation, etc of a card that was cut 50 or more years ago to one that was cut in the recent past, by most probably a different method.

What am I missing here? A grader would not have to look at all cards, but a higher cost to evaluate a more expensive card at a higher grade would seem to require more diligent methods of examination, including high resolution images of the edges and surface.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

A lot of vending cards have been notorious for being factory short. Also many dead on solid 9’s and 10’s have been pulled from vendors over the years.

Opened a vending box of 71 Topps Hockey and PSA said a few were short and wouldnt grade them. Ridiculous! They were all the same and no one trimmed and replaced a whole vending box.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Opened a vending box of 71 Topps Hockey and PSA said a few were short and wouldnt grade them. Ridiculous! They were all the same and no one trimmed and replaced a whole vending box.

They prob were short...naturally from vending. Not trimmed but Mini Sized