Best all time basketball rebounder? (offense and defense)

[ClementeFanOh]

To cardsagain74 "John"- you can have an opinion, you can't have your own facts:

1) Bill Russell most definitely DID say Havlicek was the best he ever played with. The only reason I made that point was that YOU switched this from a "who is the best rebounder" opinion piece, into a Wilt vs Russell debate. (And for Russell to say HE was the best ever, well...let's say that says more about him, than answers the actual question about who was "best ever". I think Mr. Russell may be a tad biased).

2) Despite the clear intent for this to be a "best rebounder" opinion piece, YOU persisted in bringing up Celtics team glory- again and again. Methinks you aren't as much of a Lakers fan as you claim to be...

3) Your command of basic English suffers when you have a dog in the fight. I didn't "infer" things or make general comments. I directly TOLD you to look at the rebounds totals/achievements and get beyond team banners. In addition to averaging 20 rpg over an entire career, Wilt set the single game rebound record (already discussed) and turned in FIVE 50 point, 40 rebound double/doubles. He owns ALL FIVE such 50/40 NBA double doubles in its history- which means your guy Bill has NONE.

4) Oh yes, before I forget- In his 14 seasons, Wilt led the league in rebounds 11 times. This means your guy Bill DIDN'T, in the 10 years their play intersected. I hope these ironclad specifics disabuse you of the notion that I am "relying on anecdotes". This has been my point all along- when you try to compare INDIVIDUAL stats head up with Wilt, you begin to realize how dominant his play was.

5) You did get one thing right, albeit sarcastically- Wilt did in fact have inferior teammates to Russell. Your insinuation that Wilt was somehow the problem on his teams is laughable enough that it is almost -almost- not worth addressing. It shows a clear lack of understanding on your part about why so many of his teams even got to the finals, that most people who have ever watched the sport know is abjectly foolish. Wilt was THE reason his teams got that far- period. Paragraph. And he still was on two NBA championship teams, for Heaven's sake!! As Rats60 correctly pointed out, Russell was very, very fortunate to be encircled with HOF teammates his entire career. That's great for him and fans of the Celtics (which you are, by the way). I think guys like you are just peeved that Russell dedicated his entire game to one side of the ball, and a guy like Wilt could match him there AT MINIMUM, and still blow him away offensively.

In conclusion, if you keep blowing the horn about the Celtic's TEAM titles, I can sure as heck tout Wilt's rebounds achievements as they DIRECTLY relate to the subject matter. Funny thing is, I don't dislike Russell- irrational fan boys, however, are another matter

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

To cardsagain74 "John"- you can have an opinion, you can't have your own facts:

1) Bill Russell most definitely DID say Havlicek was the best he ever played with. The only reason I made that point was that YOU switched this from a "who is the best rebounder" opinion piece, into a Wilt vs Russell debate. (And for Russell to say HE was the best ever, well...let's say that says more about him, than answers the actual question about who was "best ever". I think Mr. Russell may be a tad biased).

2) Despite the clear intent for this to be a "best rebounder" opinion piece, YOU persisted in bringing up Celtics team glory- again and again. Methinks you aren't as much of a Lakers fan as you claim to be...

3) Your command of basic English suffers when you have a dog in the fight. I didn't "infer" things or make general comments. I directly TOLD you to look at the rebounds totals/achievements and get beyond team banners. In addition to averaging 20 rpg over an entire career, Wilt set the single game rebound record (already discussed) and turned in FIVE 50 point, 40 rebound double/doubles. He owns ALL FIVE such 50/40 NBA double doubles in its history- which means your guy Bill has NONE.

4) Oh yes, before I forget- In his 14 seasons, Wilt led the league in rebounds 11 times. This means your guy Bill DIDN'T, in the 10 years their play intersected. I hope these ironclad specifics disabuse you of the notion that I am "relying on anecdotes". This has been my point all along- when you try to compare INDIVIDUAL stats head up with Wilt, you begin to realize how dominant his play was.

5) You did get one thing right, albeit sarcastically- Wilt did in fact have inferior teammates to Russell. Your insinuation that Wilt was somehow the problem on his teams is laughable enough that it is almost -almost- not worth addressing. It shows a clear lack of understanding on your part about why so many of his teams even got to the finals, that most people who have ever watched the sport know is abjectly foolish. Wilt was THE reason his teams got that far- period. Paragraph. And he still was on two NBA championship teams, for Heaven's sake!! As Rats60 correctly pointed out, Russell was very, very fortunate to be encircled with HOF teammates his entire career. That's great for him and fans of the Celtics (which you are, by the way). I think guys like you are just peeved that Russell dedicated his entire game to one side of the ball, and a guy like Wilt could match him there AT MINIMUM, and still blow him away offensively.

In conclusion, if you keep blowing the horn about the Celtic's TEAM titles, I can sure as heck tout Wilt's rebounds achievements as they DIRECTLY relate to the subject matter. Funny thing is, I don't dislike Russell- irrational fan boys, however, are another matter

I can tout Russell without being a Celtics fan. You don't have the first clue about who I am, and are hysterically hypocritical about calling someone else a fanboy. And now you're turning this into personal character attacks.

I will not address you again.

[ClementeFanOh]

John cardsagain74- then I will do the addressing. If you think "fanboy" is a personal character attack, you've got bigger problems than a rebounding debate...
I stayed on topic, you drifted off topic. I caught you and called you on it, so you kept moving the goalposts. Russell won a bunch of NBA titles, Wilt was the better player by a landslide of metrics- including rebounds.