How is this not fraud?

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by drcy

You have to state what you are selling. Handing a counterfeit bill to a cashier and said "I never claimed it was real" will be no excuse.

There was an infamous painting forger who said he never claimed at sale that they were centuries-old originals. He said the buyers came to that conclusion themselves. The police and judge that convicted him said that wasn't enough. He knew they were modern forgeries, so was required to inform sellers. Not telling them that they were fakes he himself made was the legal equivalent of saying they were originals.

There is such a thing as lying by omission.

If, in the context of a fraud claim, discovery turned up evidence that the seller actually knew the card was fake (which it probably would), then he could be guilty/liable. But for the purposes of a buyer getting his/her money back, unfortunately listing it with "I don't know if it's fake or real" is probably enough for eBay to refuse to get involved.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by ASF123

If, in the context of a fraud claim, discovery turned up evidence that the seller actually knew the card was fake (which it probably would), then he could be guilty/liable. But for the purposes of a buyer getting his/her money back, unfortunately listing it with "I don't know if it's fake or real" is probably enough for eBay to refuse to get involved.

Ebay's own rule is if you don't know what it is, you shouldn't be selling it. His saying (honestly or dishonestly) he doesn't know if it is real or reprint is enough for the sale to have been against eBay's rules.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by ASF123

If, in the context of a fraud claim, discovery turned up evidence that the seller actually knew the card was fake (which it probably would), then he could be guilty/liable. But for the purposes of a buyer getting his/her money back, unfortunately listing it with "I don't know if it's fake or real" is probably enough for eBay to refuse to get involved.

From my experience on eBay, this simply isn't true. They do have a standard in place to the effect of, "A seller cannot disclaim knowledge of authenticity of the item(s) being listed." They even provide an example - something like a Gucci purse that may be a knockoff, but the seller asserts no knowledge whether it's real or not. What has been very confusing about this policy is that several years ago they added a category called "Unknown". So they are letting sellers choose to break the rules by selecting "Unknown" for their listings! However, if you as the buyer purchase one of these "Unknown" listings, you can cite the policy and get your money back upon returning the phony merchandise. I have done it myself. You can even report listings that are in violation of this policy by finding and selecting the specific reason for the violation in a series of drop-down menus! On that basis, I have reported sellers' listings many, many times, but it sure doesn't look like eBay is planning to police themselves on the issue any time soon.