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#101
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So if someone on Net54 had replied and agreed to the 55k offer - what would have happened....? Last edited by jp1216; 03-05-2021 at 03:33 PM. Reason: typo |
#102
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Hey Hey quick update! Just came in from Steve Sloan. Will update the thread with progress
__________________
A.J. Johnson https://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/ajohnson39 *Proudest hobby accomplishment: finished the 1914 Cracker Jack set currently ranked #12 all-time |
#103
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No dog in the fight, but as he already turned down offers of 40K and 45K, I'm feeling comfortable saying he'd turn down 55K. Just my opinion.
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#104
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Things moving now. Just got off phone with Jackie Curiel at PSA after getting an email from her. She has issued a pre-paid Fedex label to send the card in for a management review.
We talked about the process and what happens if they deem the card altered and my options after. She said they would figure out a fair market price based on the data tool on the PSA website. I asked for management to come up with a market price in writing so we're on the same page before I send in the card. This is where my ebay offers and third party offers come into play. She's going to get that figure and circle back with me on Monday. No way I'm sending this card in before fair value is established. stay tuned... edited to add: Has anyone gone through this process? What should I be thinking about?
__________________
A.J. Johnson https://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/ajohnson39 *Proudest hobby accomplishment: finished the 1914 Cracker Jack set currently ranked #12 all-time Last edited by ajjohnsonsoxfan; 03-05-2021 at 04:43 PM. |
#105
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No dog in the fight, but whenever I see language like this in a guarantee I think you are 100% correct to get the amount in writing ahead of time. "The current market value is determined by PSA, based in part on Sports Market Report and SMR Online values and/or recent prices realized from the marketplace. PSA will be the sole determiner of the current market value." [emphasis added https://www.psacard.com/about/financialguarantee] If you don't agree with their determination of value, not sure what your options would be though.
__________________
Current Wantlist: E92 Nadja - Bescher, Bridwell, Cobb, Donovan, Doolan, Doyle (with bat), Lobert, Mathewson, Miller (fielding), Tinker, Wagner (throwing), Zimmerman E/T Young Backrun - Need E90-1, T216 (all versions) E92 Red Crofts - Anyone especially Barry, Shean, and Evers |
#106
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And not that this would necessarily impact your decision process, but I do wonder what they would do with the card if returned to them and a refund is issued... |
#107
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Side Note is there paper lose on top left of his hat?? Yellow Chunk?
That bugs the crap out of me, aside from being trimmed what is that? Curious what that is? Last edited by Johnny630; 03-05-2021 at 05:41 PM. |
#108
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back and forth with Jackie at PSA over email. They are refusing to negotiate a market price before I send in the card. Reached out again directly to Steve to see if I can resolve. more to come...
__________________
A.J. Johnson https://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/ajohnson39 *Proudest hobby accomplishment: finished the 1914 Cracker Jack set currently ranked #12 all-time |
#109
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Why do I get the feeling this isn't going to go smoothly?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#110
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Sounds like they are wanting to pay market price from last summer.
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#111
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Why not just drop it off, it's 45 minutes away.
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#112
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right!
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#113
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If they'd let me do that, I would be all for it. I'd still want to know what value they'd be placing on the card before they evaluate it. Once it's in their hands, I've lost all negotiating power.
__________________
A.J. Johnson https://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/ajohnson39 *Proudest hobby accomplishment: finished the 1914 Cracker Jack set currently ranked #12 all-time |
#114
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Psa
Wouldn’t you be happy be getting back what you paid or slightly more than you paid for the card originally to end all this drama?
Also, Jackie at Psa is fantastic. |
#115
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You would be happy with that outcome? I know I wouldn't. He would never be able to replace that card in that grade in today's market with what he paid for it in July. I doubt he would even be able to get a PSA 3 for what he paid in July.
__________________
Current Wantlist: E92 Nadja - Bescher, Bridwell, Cobb, Donovan, Doolan, Doyle (with bat), Lobert, Mathewson, Miller (fielding), Tinker, Wagner (throwing), Zimmerman E/T Young Backrun - Need E90-1, T216 (all versions) E92 Red Crofts - Anyone especially Barry, Shean, and Evers |
#116
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Very true, and because of that, I don't blame you one bit for not wanting to do it.
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#117
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The difference is that by offering the card at $55K, he's created a legally binding offer which, if accepted, would create a legally binding contract. It would have been a better look to just post it asking for offers in this case, IMHO.
Last edited by ngrow9; 03-06-2021 at 06:28 AM. |
#118
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Quote:
.
__________________
Leon Luckey |
#119
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Rhetorical question I assume, obviously AJ would not be happy with that at all.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#120
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Let’s face it guys would he have bought this card if it wasn’t in a PSA holder? I would guess no he bought it because it was in a PSA holder we all know the market resale value of a PSA holder slabbed card. To me PSA hast to back this up and pay you a fair market value, I believe they will. Keep the faith and let’s see if PSA makes this right I think that they will.
One thing is troubling...If this card was trying to be sold and the seller knew that it had issues I don’t really care for that again though I have no idea what anyone knew what anyone didn’t know but if the card is deemed altered PSA has to make you right. The argument I would pound home If you have to battle this out would be I bought the card because it was in a PSA holder the market knows it’s strong resale value growth and appreciation when you buy a card graded in there slab you buy it with that assurance that the card is authentic unaltered and proper. I believe the real battle is going to be what is a fair market value for this card? May go to an arbiter I don’t know ��*♂️ It always comes down to the money, on both ends is the juice worth the squeeze ? Last edited by Johnny630; 03-06-2021 at 07:37 AM. |
#121
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If the card could have been returned last summer, maybe that has some logic to it? Or can you just sit on an altered card, hope it goes up, then expect PSA to pay for the appreciation?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#122
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If he'd been compensated last summer he could've then gotten an unaltered Jackie and realized the same profit. |
#123
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But PSA wouldn't have funded it. A buyer would have.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-06-2021 at 09:42 AM. |
#124
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Reading this thread just makes me feel so happy that I picked up my PSA 4 Leaf Jackie RIGHT BEFORE the pandemic. I remember the seller wanted like five to a thousand dollars more, and instead of arguing with him, I just gave him the money. I remember him telling me "listen, this card is going to be worth ten grand one day - you hear me?" I thought to myself "yeah ... and that will probably be in ten years!" Instead, it happened in like ten weeks! LOL!
Anyhow, anyone who chops up a Leaf Jackie should have his d*ck chopped off instead! |
#125
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Quote:
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#126
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lmao!!!!!!!!!!!
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#127
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__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... |
#128
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Quote:
They juuuust make it inside size tolerances and the edges aren't 'fresh'. Someone long ago, a kid, a collector looking for it to fit inside a display, made a decision to slice and dice but age has since hidden some of that obvious alteration. It's kind of like the new video replay rules we see in sports. If you can't be sure it's been trimmed, then it's unfair to guess that it was in all likelihood but not without doubt. Of course this doesn't apply necessarily to the Jackie or some other obvious trimmed cards like below, but sometimes what's posted and postulated to be trimmed may pass the standard inspections TPG's use to make their call. Last edited by 68Hawk; 03-06-2021 at 04:05 PM. |
#129
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I think that ninety-nine percent of trimmed cards were done for the purpose of deceiving a grader and to get a higher grade. I also think that majority of these Leafs were chopped up by the same person. He also chopped up majority of the 51' and 53' Parkhurst hockey cards as well. He has been doing this for a long time. Nice Satch. |
#130
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-06-2021 at 04:40 PM. |
#131
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Ok, I'll get back on the pecker re-sizing bandwagon. |
#132
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Don't forget T206. Every time I see a skinny sharp cornered T206 I wonder. All in how many altered cards in holders? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of Thousands?
__________________
A.J. Johnson https://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/ajohnson39 *Proudest hobby accomplishment: finished the 1914 Cracker Jack set currently ranked #12 all-time |
#133
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And this guy is still sitting at home chilling, eh?
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#134
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He has made millions in this hobby. I am sure he is chilling just fine.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#135
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Not a specialty of the clinician under discussion, to my knowledge. But he has many colleagues. You've even heard of some of them.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-06-2021 at 08:39 PM. |
#136
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Thank god some un-altered exist....
Except for tape! lol
Yes Virginia, there is a non trimming Santa Clause out there! Especially like how the tape bleeds into and right up to the right edge. Peace, Mike IMG_9108.jpg PS If this was missing the tape, I could retire.......but I kinda like it! Last edited by vthobby; 03-06-2021 at 09:28 PM. |
#137
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Quote:
Seriously, that is one buldgingly full bordered Leaf card!!! Colors are also super nice and such good registration. I can't see ever wanting to let it go either. Last edited by 68Hawk; 03-06-2021 at 09:47 PM. |
#138
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well I hope this works out, but I think there is zero chance of payout on this card.
management review is going to conclude the grade is accurate with no alteration, and that will close the book on it. if they pay out on this one, they are opening the door to every single other card the BO team has discovered, which would bankrupt the company. Nat and the investment team aren't stupid, they knew this liability was out there and I'm sure there were dozens of lawyers that convinced everyone there was plenty of leeway to never pay on the promise. I really do hope I'm wrong, because AJ has some great cards and has always been a good guy in dealing with me. but alas, this "guarantee" has proven to not be worth much historically. don't get cheated... |
#139
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Thanks Dan!
Quote:
Your is super cool too! Not many of this card even exist. I do love the centering, registration, borders, colors, rarity, and yes, I do love that tape! I feel strongly that if this card was not originally taped to something that the conditon would be far from what it is now! Thanks! Mike |
#140
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Discipline
Like Warren Buffett
__________________
Bram99 You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it eat the dogfood |
#141
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Quote:
__________________
successful deals with hcv123, rholmes, robw1959, Yankees1964, theuclakid, Brian Van Horn, h2oya311, thecapeleague, Gkoz316, chesbro41, edjs, wazoo, becollie, t206kid, vintageismygame, Neal, bradmar48, iconsportscards, wrapperguy, agrebene, T3fan, T3s, ccre, Leon, wolf441, cammb, tonyo, markf31,gonzo,scmavl & others currently working on: E101 (33/50) T3 set (104/104), complete! T205 set (108/221) '33 Goudey collecting W600s, Walter Johnson |
#142
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Cutting you a check plus returning the card to you in an Authentic Altered Slab seems like the easy thing to do.
I think they will. Are you ready to battle it out with attorney ? Or just Take what they offer you? |
#143
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California Business & Professions Code section 17500: "It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or association, or any employee thereof with intent directly or indirectly to ... perform services ... or to induce the public to enter into any obligation relating thereto, to make or disseminate ...over the Internet, any statement, ... those services ... which is untrue or misleading, and which is known, or which by the exercise of reasonable care should be known, to be untrue or misleading... Any violation of the provisions of this section is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, or by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or by both that imprisonment and fine."
Seems to me that a guarantee that the company never fulfills because it says "nu-uh" to every request to fulfill it is ripe for legal action.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... |
#144
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#145
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Quote:
PSA could determine without having the card that it might be altered and if AJ refuses to send it in because he cannot get them to commit to it being trimmed or a buy back price, PSA will deactivate the cert pending a review of the card. AJ has already said he would not sell the card to anyone given the card's history but having a card with a deactivated cert would certainly add another layer of complexity to the situation.
__________________
( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#146
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It's not objectively unreasonable for PSA to want the card back in its possession before making a determination. You're going to lose that one. IMO you're already in not so great a position on account of waiting months after the card was outed and you knew it before taking action. What leverage do you think holding onto the card gives you anyhow if you aren't going to sell it under any circumstances because it's hacked, I am not seeing it.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-07-2021 at 03:39 PM. |
#147
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Quote:
I'm holding out hope that my email to Steve will allow us a dialogue to put a fair market price on the card that gives me confidence to send it in. I really don't want to get lawyers involved at this point and think we can work it out before it gets to that point. If I don't hear from Steve, I'll reach out to Nat and see if that gets me further. I'm assuming Nat (and Steve for that matter) will want to resolve fairly and amicably. All I know is the longer they wait, the potentially more expensive it gets. A PSA 7 just sold last night for $400,000+
__________________
A.J. Johnson https://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/ajohnson39 *Proudest hobby accomplishment: finished the 1914 Cracker Jack set currently ranked #12 all-time Last edited by ajjohnsonsoxfan; 03-07-2021 at 04:05 PM. |
#148
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#149
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PSA has and will deactivate cert numbers for cards they don't have in hand. They will modify set info on cards they've logged incorrectly in their database without the card in hand (the flip stays wrong in those instances until an owner sends it in). PSA is also quick on the trigger to ban people who make demands of them, so if you're a submitter or have an account to track your collection, don't be surprised if either get deleted once this one is "cleared."
The fact that you're making your case in the open makes it very likely they eliminate you from their customer pool, IMO.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#150
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Have you been following along all these three years? They and BGS have stood behind numerous cards outed for trimming. BGS doesn't even have a monetary liability/guarantee, just don't want to get egg on their face publicized for agreeing their graded cards are trimmed. Read more threads, especially on Blowout.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
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