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#101
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Any medical intervention north of a Band Aid is going to involve some risk. That risk has to be assessed in the context of the potential benefit, both at an individual and societal level.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#102
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Agreed. So what's wrong with waiting until all possible risks have been discovered, and then one can make up their own mind if the benefits out weight the risks? After all, none of the vaccines are even FDA approved at this point.
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#103
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I think this bears repeating. This is just a snap shot of 20 random days in January. People say they want more data, but then ignore it when it's given to them. Are you really more afraid of the vaccine, then you are of actual, honest to goodness Covid? |
#104
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I am not judging anyone for their decision one way or the other.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-27-2021 at 06:43 PM. |
#105
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To be honest, I do get a flu shot every year and have for decades and maybe that has something to do with my good health, but I am much more afraid of a vaccination than I am of getting sick from Covid. And I've had 2 direct contact exposures where everyone else at the gathering came down with it...except me (and I was tested each time). |
#106
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When it works well -- and of course in many individuals it doesn't -- the human immune system is a wonder to behold.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#107
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#108
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Heat attacks, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, respiratory disease, neonatal conditions, diarrhoeal diseases and stroke death numbers are way down. Why is that? ""Covid deaths...??? In 2018 - 2019 in the us the "residual" death total was 744k and 758k. This is a category is used for non autopsy. Remarkable that in 2020 this number went down to 188k? These numbers are from the cdc check them out yourself, there are more" Why is it I know more people that have died after getting the vaccine than I do those that died of covid? Why is it, after those that get the vaccine, do they need to continue to wear masks, isolate, and social distance? Why would I get a vaccine if I have to continue living my life like those that haven't had it, and especially since there is no actual proof that I have seen it actually does anything? Like what was said above, I have, personally, a better survival rate not getting the vaccine than I do if I get one. And also like I said before, if you want one, fill your boots, but trying to convince me by calling me and others anti-vaxxers no matter how hard you try with your Liberal shaming tactics, isn't going to work. Here, watch this Bill Maher video, and don't worry, he attacks both sides equally. https://youtu.be/Qp3gy_CLXho
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#109
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...that went completely over your head, didn't it...
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#110
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"Liberal Shaming Tactics?" You're the one who just made it political, and you're not really interested in answers to any of your questions, so I'm just going to assume they're all rhetorical and not waste my time. You've already made up your mind. No amount of data or hand-wringing from my end will change that. I didn't call anybody in this thread an anti-vaxxer. Earlier I used the term "anti-vaxxer nonsense" regarding a crazy theory espousing herd immunity through spreading the actual virus to the entire population rather then locking down or quarantining, or wearing masks. A theory that became obsolete the second a vaccine became available. That said, are you an anti-vaxxer or not? You're espousing typical anti-vaxxer arguments and views, but don't want to be called an anti-vaxxer. You're certainly not a pro-vaxxer. Is neutral-vaxxer a more acceptable term for you? How about anti-covid-vaxxer? Is that specific enough? I'll leave with an anecdote from my personal life: Late Spring/Early Summer of last year I politely asked a couple of plumbers to put a mask on before they came in our house to give a quote. I explained that my wife had lost both her parents to Covid just weeks earlier, and was going to be a bit sensitive about the issue. We would even provide a mask for them, if they didn't have they're own. You know what one of them did when I mentioned both my wife's parents had died of Covid? He rolled his eyes at me, spit in my driveway, lit a cigarette, and got back in his truck.....then his boss nonchalantly threw on a bandana, came in and looked at our sink, gave us a quote, and left after telling us he wouldn't do any job if he had to wear a mask. I hate myself to this day for not kicking both of those guys in the ass and off of my property right away. I was so shocked and demoralized by the situation, I thought I had done something wrong. I thought I had to cow-tow and be polite to these assholes, because it would be impossible to find another plumber on short notice in our little town. Turns out I found another company the very next day, who said they would wear a goddamn scuba outfit if I asked them to. Shock, turned to shame, which turned to anger. So, sorry. I decided I'm done being polite (or neutral) to people who don't give two craps about me, or mine, or others around them. Especially when they're so often, so very loud, and outspoken, and opinionated, and unpolite, about their own beliefs and freedoms. Do you think these numbers from January were manufactured out of thin air? |
#111
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You do realize that according to the CDC's own website where they list the Covid related deaths, they are just that. Covid related. "Most death certificates (COVID-19 or otherwise) list more than one cause of death." https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisiona...9bhg-hcku/data Not specifically to you, but in general: People throw around the 'cold hard facts' about the deaths caused by Covid. But the same people constantly and conveniently ignore the non-death impact on everyone's lives. They talk about science and facts but ignore the science and facts of shortening lifespans of the non-death health impact, such as stress, suicide, etc. You can't harp on one and ignore the other. Likewise you can't use the non-death impact as an argument against masks/quarantine/shutdowns. The depth of the true 'cold hard facts' impact won't even begin to be known until well after this is over. If you truly want to understand the impact, you can't use number of deaths, but how many person-years were lost because of the virus or how we reacted to it. Which is really cold , but the only true measurement of the impact. Not just raw deaths. And anecdotes are just that. And for what it's worth, my first Covid shot didn't affect me any different than any other shot I've gotten. Assuming the microchip they implant with the shot doesn't cause any adverse side effects. Last edited by tschock; 04-28-2021 at 04:08 AM. Reason: correction |
#112
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...about as much as my response went over yours...
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#113
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I got my second shot yesterday.
As a general comment, not aimed at anybody in particular, according to the CDC there have been 569,771 deaths from covid in the US, and according to the interwebs there were 2,977 deaths on 9-11. So, if 90% of the covid deaths were actually attributable to some other cause, then there has been the equivalent of a 9-11 event every 3 weeks. since last March. Worldwide, according to the World Health Organization, there have been 3,128,962 deaths, and again, if 90% were attributable to something else, then there has been a 9-11 event twice every week for more than a year. |
#114
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Congrats on the 2nd shot Doug.
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#115
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Ted "Just making sure I have my facts accurately attributed to something that might make sense to someone somehow" Sherman
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#116
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A world-wide loss that size twice each week. Seems pretty clear, maybe it's not a worthy number? |
#117
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#118
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People are people, some are just despicable enough to allude one loss of life to another in order to suit their own agenda or prove their point. Good for you!
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#119
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Good for you! PS: Pretty sure allude doesn't mean the same as compare or link, if that's what you were going for. |
#120
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What an elegant way to say they were gonna die anyways. |
#121
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You would prefer it sugar coated?
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#122
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I always wonder if the crowd that thinks wearing a mask is the greatest affront to freedom since the Alien and Sedition Acts exhibit the same behavior when it is time to take their shoes off at the TSA checkpoint.
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#123
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I guess that means that you weren't happy that they crashed planes into buildings, but if they had instead randomly killed 2,977 people scattered all of over, you would have been ok with it? Doug "just enjoying how you are ignoring the number of people who have died in one situation, but are all worked up about them in another" Goodman PS - since my initial post 57,576 more people have died, if we again allow the conspiracy theorists and naysayers their 90% of mistaken / faked deaths, that still means that 2 more 9/11 events have happened (albeit scattered around the planet, so not nearly as meaningful as if they had been visiting two buildings in Manhattan). Last edited by doug.goodman; 05-02-2021 at 01:21 PM. |
#124
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The one good thing about these threads is that they let you know which side of the aisle the responding members stand.
__________________
“interesting to some absolute garbage to others.” —- “Error cards and variations are for morons, IMHO.” |
#125
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"No point asking who's to blame
'cos if you're gonna die, if you're gonna die If you're gonna die, die with your boots on If you're gonna try, just stick around Gonna cry, just move along If you're gonna die, you're gonna die!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhBw80Y54gg Last edited by Shoeless Moe; 05-03-2021 at 04:54 PM. |
#126
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On a website dedicated to the discussion of cardboard, that is important ... why?
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M.!.c.h.@.3.L. . H.v.n.T _____________________________ Don't believe everything you think |
#127
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These test group numbers are skewed. Demographics indicate N54 board members are in the high risk catagory for COVID mortality. This could be problematic for card shows. Nobody WANTS to get sick, and few believe in fate anymore. Using 9/11 numbers by using COVID deaths makes sense to some people because they feel both are both foreign attacks on US soil. I just don't see how it relates at all. It seems like it is kind of trvializing 9/11. I guess deaths are deaths in some people eyes. Just like people are people, regardless of how inspiring, health conscience, or contriubuting they are, or have been to society. Ted "I cant tell if it's lack of Oxygen, or 30 years of sex drugs and roll and roll" Sherman
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
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I got mine because I figured I'd rather take my chances with the shot than with the virus (this is coming from someone who hates needles). I don't hold it against anyone who doesn't get the shot; there are a lot of question marks about it, and reasonable people can look at them and opt out.
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Signed 1953 Topps set: 264/274 (96.35 %) |
#129
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And forgive me, but I think the loss of fat, old, and sick people are worth mourning, too. |
#130
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Got my second shot today.
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#131
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Found something useful for my card
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#132
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My wife got vaccinated at the first opportunity (she's a front line worker). I got my second vaccination last month. Can't wait until they have one ready for my kids.
Development of the vaccine was definitely an accelerated process. Of course, the increases in technology (particularly the computing power needed for advanced genomics) have been logarithmic over the past decades, since the country/world last made such a concerted, wholerhearted, and funded effort to develop a vaccine for an emergency. Anyway, everyone must make their own decisions, but I get the feeling that a lot of the people waiting don't really understand the science behind these vaccines, which is understandable. Really a public service campaign to educate the public on how these vaccines work, how they were developed and tested, and the risks involved would do a great service to the country. |
#133
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Because you are in a section of the site titled "off topic", there are plenty of cardboard conversations in the "on topic" sections
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#134
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Quote:
Doug "it's been 37 years" Goodman |
#135
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Yes, this is the "off topic" section. But if you look at the where you click for this section, you will see this underneath: "General Chat and off topic stuff. Please no politics or religion." [I've taken the liberty of bolding the pertinent portion.] So when we're being politely asked not to discuss politics, why is Cliff's statement - Quote:
But more importantly, my initial question hasn't been answered by Cliff or you. In a more general sense, in either this section or in any of the sections of this forum - In any section of this forum, why would it be a "good thing" to "know which side of the aisle the responding members stand?"
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M.!.c.h.@.3.L. . H.v.n.T _____________________________ Don't believe everything you think |
#136
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That's a pre-2015 flip. Mexican fake?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#137
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I got the second shot on Tuesday and holy BLEEP did I feel like crap all day yesterday. Would do it again.
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#138
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I went into town last week and had lunch (Taco Bell) and got the first shot (Moderna.) The only side effect was that I seemed to be gassy the rest of the day.
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#139
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In the old Sesame Street tones.............. "One of these things.... is NOT like the others". On a more related note : I have had a load of people close to me get vaccinated. The vast majority reported little or no issues. A few did, but it was certainly nothing major. Personally, I will NOT be getting the vaccine. I may rethink it in 4-5 months though, after some time has elapsed and we have more information under our belts. I have had Covid TWO TIMES now, yep I'm one of the lucky few. (On my most recent - I was told point blank, cases have been decreasing, this makes no sense..... you don't even really have any symptoms other than a bad dry headache. We can only speculate you caught a newer strain, but we would never know for sure unless we thoroughly tested your sample") I just got over the second bout a few months back and 2 separate doctors told me "You would be a fool to get vaccinated now, wait 6 or so months, when everyone else's begin to wear down. Then you will be smart to get it." I'll say this. My doctor told me this when I got it the first time, which was March of last year. Also realize at that time, its right when the virus paranoia was at an all time high. They said possibly millions would ultimately die. My Doctor told me point blank........."Do NOT come in, you are 49, basically healthy and will get over it." That kind of told me right then and there exactly how "deadly" this is for the general population.
__________________
COLLECTING MICKEY MANTLE, ROBERTO CLEMENTE, JACKIE ROBINSON, WILLIE MAYS, HANK AARON and VINTAGE Successful deals with - "HCV123"/Howard Chasser, "ejstel" , "mzljapan" , "aronbenabe" , "Santo10Fan" , " Robextend", "rjackson44", "Wanaselja", "eliminator", "Dboneesq" , "Oneofthree67", "Lucas00", "ccre" , "D. Bergin" and several others. Last edited by DJCollector1; 05-06-2021 at 11:22 AM. |
#140
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That should solve your problem. Last edited by doug.goodman; 05-06-2021 at 01:34 PM. |
#141
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+1
__________________
“interesting to some absolute garbage to others.” —- “Error cards and variations are for morons, IMHO.” |
#142
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I wish Doug and Cliff could solve my problem but since it is old age I am not hopeful
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#143
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First time really seeing this thread. Yawl don't report anything just be cool. Try to keep politics out of the pandemic even though it's almost impossible. Thanks
I got my 2nd shot 3 days ago. It felt like a light Charlie horse and that was about it. The first shot had no side effects. I have tried to convince my 24 yrs. old daughter, the data scientist who graduated magna cum laude in statistics, and she won't do it. She says she might later but it's too soon for her. I just shake my head. I can't make her do it . Statistically it is a no brainer to me. I think everyone should get one but it's an individual choice. To each their own. .
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Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 05-06-2021 at 08:55 PM. |
#144
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That's really off-center for a 10.
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (132/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (193/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#145
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Just get the vaccine, get the vaccine, get the vaccine as soon as you can!! If I didn't know any better, I'd swear big pharma and crooked politicians were more behind this supposed pandemic than anyone else. Like I've said before, with a 97%-98% recovery rate in the vast majority of the population, why is this also not talked about? I'm sure if these 2 healthy women were given all the facts or their doctors told them what yours told you, they might be still be alive. https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...zeneca-vaccine https://globalnews.ca/video/7815211/...zeneca-vaccine https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1212939.shtml Also, another thing that I can't understand is why are some who have had covid and fully recovered from it getting the vaccine? We are being brainwashed that we need medication and/or shots for every ailment under the sun instead of relying on our own immune system. Again, blindly ignoring or silencing how rich pharma and others are getting from all these vaccines doesn't mean it is not happening. So far, 5,800 fully vaccinated people have caught COVID-19 anyway in U.S., CDC says. About 5,800 people who have been vaccinated against coronavirus have become infected anyway, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tells CNN. Some became seriously ill and 74 people died, the CDC said. It said 396 -- 7% -- of those who got infected after they were vaccinated required hospitalization. https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...says-1.5388245 I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to slam and discredit me for telling them another side of the story exists in all this that is being silenced, but if that makes those that are incapable of thinking for themselves or questioning anything, then so be it if that makes them feel better.
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#146
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The problem we have is that many older folks' immune systems don't work that well, and the same is true for other folks who don't take the best care of themselves. That, combined with the fact that this virus is quite contagious and is a very efficient killer of people with compromised respiratory function and certain other issues.
No solution is perfect and there are downsides and trade offs to all of them and there needs to be careful assessment and openness, but framing the discussion in conspiratorial terms doesn't IMO advance the ball much.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-07-2021 at 08:08 AM. |
#147
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https://nypost.com/2021/04/07/the-us...ine-passports/
https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/...ys-new-report/
__________________
52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 Last edited by irv; 05-07-2021 at 08:23 AM. |
#148
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I'm just trying to understand the "one good thing about these threads is that they let you know which side of the aisle the responding members stand." Why is it a good thing to know? What's the benefit? You trying to change the subject to complaining about politics doesn't answer the question: What's the benefit of knowing "which side of the aisle the responding members stand?"
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M.!.c.h.@.3.L. . H.v.n.T _____________________________ Don't believe everything you think |
#149
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Even HE has more taste. |
#150
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