Will you get vaccinated against COVID once it's available?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

In other words, you don't give a shit about people so you don't wear a mask during flu season and are willing to pass it on, right?

When did any public health authority ever tell the public it should wear masks during flu season to control transmission? Feels like a fake point to me.

[G1911]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Is it about the directives issued by the state, or protecting others? If masks save lives from Covid then they would also save them from the Flu in 2019. So you think one only has this ethical obligation if the state orders people to wear them? That is, it is not purely about some ethical standard you claim, but about following the governments orders?

Why the hell would I have had reason to even think about this in 2019? Pure hindsight argument combined with a straw man about the state. Give me a break. You started off well but you've gone way downhill.

[G1911]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Because people died from the flu. Just like people die from Covid. If your argument is that I have an ethical obligation to wear a mask because you are scared and your vaccine is only 95% effective, but you are at no greater risk than a flue patient in 2019, it is fair to ask what you did when the danger was also tiny but present. It is you who used the excuse that the government didn’t order this for the flu. It is fair to then ask if our standard is ethical or based upon the orders of the state then. It seems that under your last argument I have to wear a mask around people depending on what governmental body has jurisdiction in that place and what they have directed, not the life-saving argument you first used.

I might be young, maybe I’m going downhill, but at least I don’t claim you have to live YOUR life according to MY whims.

But the flaw in your reasoning is that I had no reason to know or think about any of this in 2019, at least I was not aware of any public discourse on the subject.

Plus a lot of people haven't been vaccinated and are still at whatever their baseline risk was, so (assuming for argument's sake masks cut down on transmission) you're still exposing them even if you're not exposing me very much.

[G1911]

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

You are unaware that thousands of people die from the flu every year, especially seniors and those with immune system diseases? The fact that the flu can be lethal (more lethal than Covid if you are 95% immune to Covid) is completely new to you?

What a crock. The difference is that it wasn’t a virtue signal of moral superiority in 2019.

Of course I understand that, but tell me who in 2019 was suggesting I wear a mask to protect others? And if nobody was, why would I have had reason to come to that conclusion myself?

[packs]

We're talking about signs of respect not living life as the perfect example of humanity. At this moment in time, it is respectful to wear a mask in public, the same way it would be respectful for you to smoke your cigarette outside instead of in my living room. It is possible to accomplish both being respectful and doing what you'd like to do. If you don't want to get the vaccine, totally fine. Wear a mask around me and do whatever you like away from me. Why fight against that?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

Wear a mask around me and do whatever you like away from me. Why fight against that?

You just gave yourself up. It's all about YOU! If it were about others, you would say to wear a mask around them too.

[G1911]

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[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by G1911

Because people died from the flu. Just like people die from Covid. If your argument is that I have an ethical obligation to wear a mask because you are scared and your vaccine is only 95% effective, but you are at no greater risk than a flue patient in 2019, it is fair to ask what you did when the danger was also tiny but present. It is you who used the excuse that the government didn’t order this for the flu. It is fair to then ask if our standard is ethical or based upon the orders of the state then. It seems that under your last argument I have to wear a mask around people depending on what governmental body has jurisdiction in that place and what they have directed, not the life-saving argument you first used.

I might be young, maybe I’m going downhill, but at least I don’t claim you have to live YOUR life according to MY whims.

You're making the best points by far here, and showing that youth and intelligent reasoning are not mutually exclusive.

... ignore the straw man and "going downhill" comments, they speak of the inability of others here to argue your points...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When did any public health authority ever tell the public it should wear masks during flu season to control transmission? Feels like a fake point to me.

Hmmm...I don't know. I'll actually have to research that.

What I do know is that masks were recommended in 2009 for H1N1. You wore one, right?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Hmmm...I don't know. I'll actually have to research that.

What I do know is that masks were recommended in 2009 for H1N1. You wore one, right?

I don't recall that at all.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't recall that at all.

You don't recall wearing one or you don't recall the recommendation?

Either way, the point I was trying to make is that until now neither of you ever gave a shit about anyone else when making a healthcare choice for yourself. Get over your self-righteousness.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You don't recall wearing one or you don't recall the recommendation?

Either way, the point I was trying to make is that until now neither of you ever gave a shit about anyone else when making a healthcare choice for yourself. Get over your self-righteousness.

The recommendation.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The recommendation.

CDC article from 2009...

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm

I'll infer that didn't give a crap about the health of others and failed to wear a mask as recommended by the CDC.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

CDC article from 2009...

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm

I'll infer that didn't give a crap about the health of others and failed to wear a mask as recommended by the CDC.

You should actually read what you link to.

In community and home settings, the use of facemasks and respirators generally are not recommended.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

CDC article from 2009...

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm

I'll infer that didn't give a crap about the health of others and failed to wear a mask as recommended by the CDC.

Did you even read that? Specifically table 1 they refer to in the main text?
Persons who had no increased risk of serious illness did NOT have masks recommended.

Compared to Covid, during 2009-10 H1N1 was a minor leaguer. Totally unlike the version from 1918.
https://www.healthline.com/health/h1n1-vs-covid-19

Harder to catch, nearly always not much more than a bad cold.
The comparison isn't even close.