The Cleveland Guardians? Yes, It's Official

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Mark17

That would be an excellent analogy........ if Sockalexis had founded a hate group.

I see. You get to decide what is tradition and what is offensive. Damn shame the Cleveland ownership didn't consult with you before deciding to change names.

As was discussed back late last year, this so-called cancel culture has been going on for half a century now when it comes to teams changing their nicknames. So you can piss and moan all you want, it's not going away.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I see. You get to decide what is tradition and what is offensive. Damn shame the Cleveland ownership didn't consult with you before deciding to change names.

As was discussed back late last year, this so-called cancel culture has been going on for half a century now when it comes to teams changing their nicknames. So you can piss and moan all you want, it's not going away.

Cancel culture has been going on for 50 years?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cammb

Cancel culture has been going on for 50 years?

No where close to the extent it is now. I can't even get Uncle Ben's rice any longer. Now it's Uncle Harry's or something (no offense to anyone named Harry)

[BobC]

I wonder if we'd be having this discussion had the Indians agreed to give a percentage of their take every year to some indian tribes or charities for the supposed use of the term "Indians"? Would be interesting to see how the "insulted" ethnic group would have reacted had the team ownership just voluntarily decided to change the name, and then informed those tribes/charities they would no longer be getting any money from the team.

[packs]

Maybe it's true that naming the team the Cleveland Indians was out of respect but it clearly didn't last. Chief Wahoo could not be confused with respect on any level in my opinion. I'm not sure why there's always resistance to ending bad practices. Why would anyone want to perpetuate Chief Wahoo? Or an association with it? Even though I don't like Guardians it is a clean break from all things Wahoo. Although I think Naps or Spiders would have accomplished the same thing.

[Hirbonzig]

If Cleveland is going to come up with a crappy new name, might as well go further and call themselves the “Mistakes”. Named after the cozy confines of the old Cleveland Municipal Stadium affectionately known as the mistake on the lake.

[mr2686]

As far as tradition goes, I don't think a name change really matters. So many teams in all sports have moved over the years and change their names to align with the new city (and if they don't it seems odd) and so many many players change teams every year that they don't even know who they're playing for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivzrbp_WR8w

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by BobC

I wonder if we'd be having this discussion had the Indians agreed to give a percentage of their take every year to some indian tribes or charities for the supposed use of the term "Indians"? Would be interesting to see how the "insulted" ethnic group would have reacted had the team ownership just voluntarily decided to change the name, and then informed those tribes/charities they would no longer be getting any money from the team.

You may want to re-examine your assumptions here. There is certainly still significant poverty in native communities, but tribes are considered sovereign nations and in many states are quite rich due to operating casinos and other businesses. Here in Oklahoma, our governor had the brilliant idea that he would renegotiate the gaming compact with the tribes to increase the revenue for the state. The tribes basically told him to f--k off and made it stick. The tribes are probably the most powerful political constituency in Oklahoma behind the oil and gas industry. So, throwing a little charity their way under the assumption they'll be grateful for your largesse may fail spectacularly.

Funny (now) story. My wife is an Ohio girl and while I am not originally from there, it is where my family lives now. A number of years ago, on a visit, I (without even thinking) bought an Indians ballcap with the Chief Wahoo logo on it. When I got back home (without even thinking) I wore it out in public, I got a lot of dirty looks. Needless to say, the hat was relegated to yardwork duty and, within a year, was in the trash.

As for the name, I love it. Cleveland is a great town and the Guardians of Transportation are a significant local landmark. They are part of the Hope Memorial Bridge which connects the Ohio City neighborhood to downtown. The ballpark sits at the east end of the bridge. My wife and I were back there a few weekends ago for a wedding. As is our habit, we went to Ohio City for lunch and a visit to the Market Garden microbrewery (which uses a Guardian in their corporate logo.) There was a little art fair going on in a plaza across 25th Street from the West Side Market and there was a lot of Guardian inspired artwork on display. I even bought this t-shirt:



It really made me realize how much the Guardians of Transportation are part of Clevelands identity.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

You may want to re-examine your assumptions here. There is certainly still significant poverty in native communities, but tribes are considered sovereign nations and in many states are quite rich due to operating casinos and other businesses. Here in Oklahoma, our governor had the brilliant idea that he would renegotiate the gaming compact with the tribes to increase the revenue for the state. The tribes basically told him to f--k off and made it stick. The tribes are probably the most powerful political constituency in Oklahoma behind the oil and gas industry. So, throwing a little charity their way under the assumption they'll be grateful for your largesse may fail spectacularly.

Funny (now) story. My wife is an Ohio girl and while I am not originally from there, it is where my family lives now. A number of years ago, on a visit, I (without even thinking) bought an Indians ballcap with the Chief Wahoo logo on it. When I got back home (without even thinking) I wore it out in public, I got a lot of dirty looks. Needless to say, the hat was relegated to yardwork duty and, within a year, was in the trash.

As for the name, I love it. Cleveland is a great town and the Guardians of Transportation are a significant local landmark. They are part of the Hope Memorial Bridge which connects the Ohio City neighborhood to downtown. The ballpark sits at the east end of the bridge. My wife and I were back there a few weekends ago for a wedding. As is our habit, we went to Ohio City for lunch and a visit to the Market Garden microbrewery (which uses a Guardian in their corporate logo.) There was a little art fair going on in a plaza across 25th Street from the West Side Market and there was a lot of Guardian inspired artwork on display. I even bought this t-shirt:



It really made me realize how much the Guardians of Transportation are part of Clevelands identity.

Good point Jeff, I was just thinking that there are some native American people, or charities for them, that would likely appreciate getting a piece of the action. Those groups doing well probably don't care as much though, but I can't believe that all native American groups are doing that well that they wouldn't like a little extra income.

Usually the actual protesting of the Indians name is done basically by maybe a dozen or so people that show up outside the stadium on opening day every year, and then seem to be pretty much done for the rest of the year. So the bulk of the complaining and protesting is really coming from people online and out of town who aren't actually in Cleveland as far as I can tell, or are even fans of the team or otherwise attending games. It seems to be a small minority of the native Americans who are actually upset about the name Indians.

Anyway, was downtown today and had lunch over at Heck's which is in Ohio City across the bridge from the stadium, and stopped in the West Side Market afterwards to pick up some pad thai chicken. Great place to shop. Interesting note, Heck's restaurant is in the Ohio City neighborhood of Cleveland, and is three or four doors down from the house where John Heisman was born and raised.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by cammb

Cancel culture has been going on for 50 years?

That's my point-- there is nothing real new here. The Stanford team changed its name from the Indians to Cardinals in 1972, and several other teams followed suit in the ensuing few years. There was no such term as cancel culture, now it's considered some kind of movement fostered by a sort of evil, anti-American, what have they done to my great country cabal. Oh the horror!

[Billy5858]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

That's my point-- there is nothing real new here. The Stanford team changed its name from the Indians to Cardinals in 1972, and several other teams followed suit in the ensuing few years. There was no such term as cancel culture, now it's considered some kind of movement fostered by a sort of evil, anti-American, what have they done to my great country cabal. Oh the horror!

This ^^^

You “cancel culture” people…get over it!
Ben is not my uncle and Jemima is not my aunt.
Do some research

[timn1]

Don't you people complaining about "cancel culture" have anything important to worry about?

Originally Posted by nolemmings

That's my point-- there is nothing real new here. The Stanford team changed its name from the Indians to Cardinals in 1972, and several other teams followed suit in the ensuing few years. There was no such term as cancel culture, now it's considered some kind of movement fostered by a sort of evil, anti-American, what have they done to my great country cabal. Oh the horror!

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by timn1

Don't you people complaining about "cancel culture" have anything important to worry about?

Probably not.

Cancel culture and it's younger cousin, critical race theory, are just the leading contenders for the moral panic du jour.

FWIW, here is a picture of one of the Guardians my wife took on our annual trip back to Ohio a few years ago.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

Probably not.

Cancel culture and it's younger cousin, critical race theory, are just the leading contenders for the moral panic du jour.

FWIW, here is a picture of one of the Guardians my wife took on our annual trip back to Ohio a few years ago.

Was just driving over the bridge today. It is a great, old bridge, and the sculptures are wonderful (there are 4 of these posts/columns in total on the bridge) and it literally takes you right to the front entrance of Progressive Field, as you can see from the stadium in the background. Nice photo. The name sucks though. Don't know of anyone in Cleveland happy with the new name. I would expect to see people still coming to the park wearing Indians gear and even Chief Wahoo images despite the name change. Will be interesting to see if they try to ban people from coming into the ballpark with such at some point. I believe that they still sell Chief Wahoo items in the team gift shops yet, despite doing away with the logo on uniforms and caps worn by players or displayed around the stadium back in 2018. If they are truly going to abandon the name and image, they should do so. But it seems they are still going to maintain and keep the copyrights on those and keep making money off the name and images as long as they can. Hypocrisy and greed as usual. If they truly were so behind the changes in the name and images as a show of respect for native Americans, shouldn't they simply disassociate themselves from both the name and image entirely, and not continue to make money off them?