Goldin Vault

Republicaninmass · #1 08-01-2021, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobC

Getting back to the Goldin "Vault", the main topic of this thread, I've always heard others mention how AHs very often had direct pipelines to TPGs in order to more quickly get items graded by the TPG and ready to be auctioned off. Also seems I remember some people would say that because of their volume and recurring use of these TPG grading services that they suspected some AHs would get not just preferential service and treatment from the TPG(s) they used, but maybe also more favorable grading of items they submitted. Not sure this would be the thinking currently due in large part to the pandemic and the impact its had on TPGs and grading in general, but if that thinking still exists, is one of the potential services Goldin's "Vault" could provide be to get raw cards that people have stored in the "vault" graded by a TPG for them? I do not know, but has anyone seen or heard if this may be offered as an added"vault" service by Goldin?

One should ask Nat Turmer about the Lebron James card at the national.

Presented without comment

Peter_Spaeth · #2 08-01-2021, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

One should ask Nat Turmer about the Lebron James card at the national.

Presented without comment

If no comment, how about some context?

Republicaninmass · #3 08-01-2021, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If no comment, how about some context?

Only conjecture and hearsay counselor

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Peter_Spaeth · #4 08-03-2021, 08:17 AM

PWCC says it received $100 million in vault submissions at the National. Business is good! According to my math and their report of 7800 items, that works out to a staggering 12K per item.

BeanTown · #5 08-03-2021, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

PWCC says it received $100 million in vault submissions at the National. Business is good! According to my math and their report of 7800 items, that works out to a staggering 12K per item.

Do you believe what they say

Republicaninmass · #6 08-03-2021, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Do you believe what they say

I'd trim that number a hair

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Peter_Spaeth · #7 08-03-2021, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Do you believe what they say

With the insane direction this hobby is going, it wouldn't surprise me if it was pretty accurate.

Not our hobby any more. It's vaults and flippers and crypto and gem rates and weird million dollar BKB cards and social media and influencers and whatever.

mrreality68 · #8 08-03-2021, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

With the insane direction this hobby is going, it wouldn't surprise me if it was pretty accurate.

It maybe true or it just maybe that they are just trying to Enhance their image and the image of their services.
Leading people to believe it is being used by so many people and with so much higher end products to try getting other people business

samosa4u · #9 08-03-2021, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

PWCC says it received $100 million in vault submissions at the National.

That's INSANE!

Peter_Spaeth · #10 08-03-2021, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u

That's INSANE!

LOL. You're much too young to understand the reference but you reminded me of the old Crazy Eddie commercials: our prices are INSANE.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...as-died-at-68/

ullmandds · #11 08-03-2021, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

LOL. You're much too young to understand the reference but you reminded me of the old Crazy Eddie commercials: our prices are INSANE.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...as-died-at-68/

i grew up watching those commercials and shopping there...the good ole days!!!

BobC · #12 08-03-2021, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

PWCC says it received $100 million in vault submissions at the National. Business is good! According to my math and their report of 7800 items, that works out to a staggering 12K per item.

Hmmm....at that value I would initially think that no sales tax would have had a lot to do with those vault submissions. But if these were submissions they received at the National, the owners would have already paid any sales tax due, so that can't be it. Would guess these submissions are mostly by flippers or others looking/expecting to sell in the near future, and not by more traditional collectors then who would more likely want actual/closer possesion of their valuable cards. Assuming they plan to use PWCC then for eventual sale, and likely made the submissions at the National for ease and convenience since they were going to be there, and then not also incur the cost/risk of having to mail their items to PWCC in Oregon. And some submissions could have been from acquisitions made at the National for real convenience.

Personally, unless I was using it to get around sales taxes, or planning all along to consign items to PWCC for sale at some point, I just don't see the attraction or advantage of using PWCC's "vault". Is there something I'm missing and not seeing/realizing that would be attracting such sizable submissions to PWCC at the National then if it was not simply for convenience or to save on sales taxes, especially in light of some of the questions and potential issues that have been discussed in this thread?

Peter_Spaeth · #13 08-03-2021, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobC

Hmmm....at that value I would initially think that no sales tax would have had a lot to do with those vault submissions. But if these were submissions they received at the National, the owners would have already paid any sales tax due, so that can't be it. Would guess these submissions are mostly by flippers or others looking/expecting to sell in the near future, and not by more traditional collectors then who would more likely want actual/closer possesion of their valuable cards. Assuming they plan to use PWCC then for eventual sale, and likely made the submissions at the National for ease and convenience since they were going to be there, and then not also incur the cost/risk of having to mail their items to PWCC in Oregon. And some submissions could have been from acquisitions made at the National for real convenience.

Personally, unless I was using it to get around sales taxes, or planning all along to consign items to PWCC for sale at some point, I just don't see the attraction or advantage of using PWCC's "vault". Is there something I'm missing and not seeing/realizing that would be attracting such sizable submissions to PWCC then if it was not to save on sales taxes, especially in light of some of the questions and potential issues that have been discussed in this thread?

I think it's probably mostly "flippers." Someone on BO mentioned they will also loan money against your vault holdings, so maybe "investors" are looking to work that angle too and leverage more purchases, I don't know.

BobC · #14 08-03-2021, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think it's probably mostly "flippers." Someone on BO mentioned they will also loan money against your vault holdings, so maybe "investors" are looking to work that angle too and leverage more purchases, I don't know.

Aaaaahhh.....hadn't heard that one before. That sounds like a pawn shop operation then, which I believe are also subject to differing laws and regulations, depending on what state the pawn shop is operating from. I've heard of consignors sometimes getting advances on items they are putting up for sale with auction houses, but always thought that was only through actual, licensed auction houses for consigned goods. Thought outfits like PWCC and Probstein were different from fully licensed and state regulated AH's though, and therefore such advances would be considered more in line with pawn shop activities after all, especially if in PWCC's case the advances are being made on items kept in their "vault" that have NOT been formally consigned for actual sale by PWCC yet. I would think that distinction could make a difference. Have not seen or heard about what actual agreements or documents PWCC has people signing in regards to placing items in their "vault", what additional agreement or documents (if any) are also required to be signed to remove an item from their "vault" to then being formally consigned for sale, and whether or not the "vault" operation and PWCC's Ebay sales consignment operation are actual, separate legal entities, or all just one company. Would love to see blank/redacted copies of all these PWCC agreements and documents to get a better idea of exactly what they are doing.

Would also assume there could be a difference if these $100M of submissions were actually being made to just PWCC's "vault", or if they actually were tied to consignments for sale. An earlier poster questioned the veracity of the reported PWCC "vault" submissions at the National. Is it possible that figure could in reality be a combination of true "vault" submissions and sales consignments?

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