ebay finds that PWCC engaged in shill bidding?

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I intend to follow the rules. I've already spoken with Leon about this privately via PM. He told me that the purpose of the "post your name" rule is so that people cannot hide behind a keyboard, anonymously disparaging specific companies or individuals without their name being tied to it or to prevent company shills from posting anonymously.

If he feels that my discussion on this topic is in violation of that, then I will stop contributing to these conversations. But I'm not disparaging anyone or any company in this discussion.

Interesting that you would rather not give your name than continue to contribute.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well, it's up to Leon, but in this day and age of social media and searches I can understand why some people wouldn't want their employer to know what they were doing in their out of work lives. That said, I think it's easily prevented by disguising your name with extra punctuation or using symbols to replace a letter or two etc.

I see less reason not to want the people here to know who you are.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The single DeLorme screenshot I agree can be explained, but I knew DeLorme and you presumably didn't and I can tell you from what he told and showed me that lots of stuff was going on with Brent's knowledge. If you're defending Brent you're barking up the wrong tree, IMO. And don't even get me started about his knowledge of selling whacked cards, or stuff he did himself.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The single DeLorme screenshot I agree can be explained, but I knew DeLorme and you presumably didn't and I can tell you from what he told and showed me that lots of stuff was going on with Brent's knowledge. If you're defending Brent you're barking up the wrong tree, IMO. And don't even get me started about his knowledge of selling whacked cards, or stuff he did himself.

No, I did not know DeLorme. Nor do I know Brent. I am not well connected in this hobby. I accept that there are all sorts of shenanigans going on that I know little to nothing about. Usually, where there's smoke, there's fire. But I've also encountered what comes across to me as a whole lot of fog that people in this hobby seem to want to call smoke for some reason. It just seems to build and build and the next thing you know, there's this avalanche being built from logical fallacies and rampant speculation. This is the stuff I keep finding myself combatting. It's the conclusions that people draw from the "evidence" that I struggle with.

This screenshot topic is a prime example. It keeps getting passed around as though it were evidence of PWCC instructing their buyers to shill bid on their auctions. This doesn't appear to be true though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

No, I did not know DeLorme. Nor do I know Brent. I am not well connected in this hobby. I accept that there are all sorts of shenanigans going on that I know little to nothing about. Usually, where there's smoke, there's fire. But I've also encountered what comes across to me as a whole lot of fog that people in this hobby seem to want to call smoke for some reason. It just seems to build and build and the next thing you know, there's this avalanche being built from logical fallacies and rampant speculation. This is the stuff I keep finding myself combatting. It's the conclusions that people draw from the "evidence" that I struggle with.

This screenshot topic is a prime example. It keeps getting passed around as though it were evidence of PWCC instructing their buyers to shill bid on their auctions. This doesn't appear to be true though.

Well when I post something and include an implicit or explicit conclusion, I can't at the same time post or cross-link 20 years' worth of knowledge that supports what I am saying, can I? A lot of other people who post have lots of context behind them too. What you're doing may make sense in some cases but not in others. Every post can't be freestanding. Most readers are regulars and have the context too.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This screenshot topic is a prime example. It keeps getting passed around as though it were evidence of PWCC instructing their buyers to shill bid on their auctions. This doesn't appear to be true though.

In the screenshot he basically demands the guy places the high bid. And they reference previous discussions they have had around bid increments.

Not evidence of shill bidding, but does raise a number of questions. First, why is an auction house discussing bidding strategy with a potential buyer? If the bidder is a problem, block his access. This is simple stuff. And how does Brent know the high bid will get beat?

Lots to unpack in that exchange and none of it screams integrity from either side.

[japhi]

For the folks that say they simply pay the price they are comfortable with, and therefore can't be had by a shill bidder....I'm curious to understand where that pricing decision comes from? Do you folks have some magical trading card evaluation logic? Or do you use previous sales history? If the latter, you are absolutely exposed to all these bidding schemes.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by japhi

For the folks that say they simply pay the price they are comfortable with, and therefore can't be had by a shill bidder....I'm curious to understand where that pricing decision comes from? Do you folks have some magical trading card evaluation logic? Or do you use previous sales history? If the latter, you are absolutely exposed to all these bidding schemes.

Throw out PWCC as a comparable sale number valuation, I’ve been doing that for years.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by japhi

For the folks that say they simply pay the price they are comfortable with, and therefore can't be had by a shill bidder....I'm curious to understand where that pricing decision comes from? Do you folks have some magical trading card evaluation logic? Or do you use previous sales history? If the latter, you are absolutely exposed to all these bidding schemes.

It is very simple for me. I set the highest price that I am comfortable in paying and submit it. If it goes above that price. I move on to the next auction of a like item. No science or woo involved in the decision making on my end. Just the bottom (or top) line for me.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by conor912

Interesting that you would rather not give your name than continue to contribute.

Leon knows who I am. He has my name and phone number. I have nothing to hide. But that is different from wanting to post content on a public forum with my personal info attached to it in the year 2021. A lot has changed over the past 10 years with respect to people posting online. Most employers in Silicon Valley these days do not want their employees to engage in public discussions under their own names, as any random comment taken out of context today can, and often does, get brought back to HR departments by people trying to "dox" someone or get them "canceled".

I have no intention of disparaging individuals or companies here, or of saying anything stupid that might get me "canceled" for something. I care more about my career than I do about launching accusations at others. I do enjoy discussing current events and developments in the hobby like this eBay/PWCC email today, but if you go back and read my comments on this topic, I don't think you'll see me accusing any of the parties involved of anything untoward. If anything, I'm pushing back against those who are.

[Peter_Spaeth]

You're obviously highly knowledgeable about computers and technology. If you substitute @, $, and 1 for a, s, and i, is it still going to show up on any search engine?

[irv]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Leon knows who I am. He has my name and phone number. I have nothing to hide. But that is different from wanting to post content on a public forum with my personal info attached to it in the year 2021. A lot has changed over the past 10 years with respect to people posting online. Most employers in Silicon Valley these days do not want their employees to engage in public discussions under their own names, as any random comment taken out of context today can, and often does, get brought back to HR departments by people trying to "dox" someone or get them "canceled".

I have no intention of disparaging individuals or companies here, or of saying anything stupid that might get me "canceled" for something. I care more about my career than I do about launching accusations at others. I do enjoy discussing current events and developments in the hobby like this eBay/PWCC email today, but if you go back and read my comments on this topic, I don't think you'll see me accusing any of the parties involved of anything untoward. If anything, I'm pushing back against those who are.

Carry on and don't worry what others think about you for not having your name out there.
In their frustration for not knowing who you are or wondering if they do, they are simply trying to coerce you into revealing it.

Like you have clearly stated, you have broken no rules in that requirement so there is no need.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Leon knows who I am. He has my name and phone number. I have nothing to hide. But that is different from wanting to post content on a public forum with my personal info attached to it in the year 2021. A lot has changed over the past 10 years with respect to people posting online. Most employers in Silicon Valley these days do not want their employees to engage in public discussions under their own names, as any random comment taken out of context today can, and often does, get brought back to HR departments by people trying to "dox" someone or get them "canceled".

I have no intention of disparaging individuals or companies here, or of saying anything stupid that might get me "canceled" for something. I care more about my career than I do about launching accusations at others. I do enjoy discussing current events and developments in the hobby like this eBay/PWCC email today, but if you go back and read my comments on this topic, I don't think you'll see me accusing any of the parties involved of anything untoward. If anything, I'm pushing back against those who are.

Well, if you're not going to post your name, then I will - how does that sound? His name, ladies and gentlemen, is ... JACK FROST. Here is his recent picture:

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Well, if you're not going to post your name, then I will - how does that sound? His name, ladies and gentlemen, is ... JACK FROST. Here is his recent picture:

Huh. I was thinking his name was Parson Brown.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Well, if you're not going to post your name, then I will - how does that sound? His name, ladies and gentlemen, is ... JACK FROST. Here is his recent picture:

Based on his history, I thought his name was was Bo Hunter... not to be confused with Bo Jackson or Hunter Pence.

I suppose that only those who frequent BO (meaning Blowout- not just another Bo) will get the reference.

[chadeast]

the one and only Snowman

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Based on his history, I thought his name was was Bo Hunter... not to be confused with Bo Jackson or Hunter Pence.

I suppose that only those who frequent BO (meaning Blowout- not just another Bo) will get the reference.

Yes that was his Blowout ID. Not his real name though.

[samosa4u]

Back to PWCC ...

Here is the way I see it: eBay is the largest marketplace for sports cards, right? And majority of the insane prices would come from PWCC - shilling or no shilling. And of course, this set off a chain reaction of increased prices. Now, with PWCC being gone, I want to see what will happen to card prices on eBay over the next couple of years.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Back to PWCC ...

Here is the way I see it: eBay is the largest marketplace for sports cards, right? And majority of the insane prices would come from PWCC - shilling or no shilling. And of course, this set off a chain reaction of increased prices. Now, with PWCC being gone, I want to see what will happen to card prices on eBay over the next couple of years.

Good Point and Very interesting.

Will be interesting to see

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

...with PWCC being gone, I want to see what will happen to card prices on eBay over the next couple of years.

And prices on a larger scale. After all, how many people exclusively use eBay "comps" for pricing?

(yes, I realize there are other pricing tools available)