Will you get vaccinated against COVID once it's available?

[ibuysportsephemera]

It's funny to me how people come to this thread consistently to try to prove that the vaccines don't work. It seems to me that they are trying to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing. Is it important to you to get validation from other anti-vaxxers? I just don't get it?

BTW, my friend who I mentioned earlier is still on a vent (almost a month later) and is still in dire condition.

Jeff G.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

It's funny to me how people come to this thread consistently to try to prove that the vaccines don't work. It seems to me that they are trying to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing. Is it important to you to get validation from other anti-vaxxers? I just don't get it?

BTW, my friend who I mentioned earlier is still on a vent (almost a month later) and is still in dire condition.

Jeff G.

What's even funnier are people that are told, and can see that numbers are going up DESPITE the vaccine supposedly working, and they STILL live in their delusional "everything I'm being told by the media and government must be 100% correct, and I blindly follow and question nothing despite obvious and glaring contradictions" world.

But yeah, it's the "anti-vaxxers" that are trying to convince themselves lol

[bnorth]

If you think this is all a big government plan to control you, you have WAY bigger problems than Covid.

[irv]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If you think this is all a big government plan to control you, you have WAY bigger problems than Covid.

You might want to educate yourself first on globalization, agenda 2030 or the great reset, Ben, before you start throwing out insults.
If you don't think this is political, but rather about your health and well being, you haven't been paying attention.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/our...t-great-reset/
https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Reset
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2fp0Jeyjvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz--5LTTmaM

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

What's even funnier are people that are told, and can see that numbers are going up DESPITE the vaccine supposedly working, and they STILL live in their delusional "everything I'm being told by the media and government must be 100% correct, and I blindly follow and question nothing despite obvious and glaring contradictions" world.

But yeah, it's the "anti-vaxxers" that are trying to convince themselves lol

What's even more pathetic are people who ignorantly post numbers to "prove" their point when the totality of those numbers prove the opposite of their point.

Originally Posted by irv

They're awesome vaccines! I honestly don't understand the vaccine hesitancy??

499 fully vaccinated cases today and 469 in the unvaccinated. Sure makes one want to rush out and get these jabs!!

And, like anyone with a brain could see, the number of vaccinated cases in the ICU is also closing the gap on the unvaccinated.

It's amazing that some still advocate and endorse these vaccines despite these numbers.

""The number of new COVID-19 cases in Ontario continue to grow, reaching the highest total since May 30""

""The number of active cases went up to 7,540""

https://www.durhamradionews.com/archives/148290

According to the article in the above link, 11,824,449 people in Ontario are above 5 years of age. Based on their percentages (80.55% fully vaccinated, 84.39% fully or partially vaccinated, and 15.61% unvaccinated), 9,524,594 people are fully vaccinated, 9,978,653 are partially vaccinated and 2,299,855 are not vaccinated. According to the numbers provided, 499 of the vaccinated recently got covid, 25 of the partially vaccinated got covid, and 469 of the unvaccinated got covid. In other words, 0.0052% of the fully vaccinated got covid, 0.0055% of the partially vaccinated got covid, and 0.025% of the unvaccinated people got covid. What that means is that if you are unvaccinated, you are 4.85 times more likely to get covid than if you are fully vaccinated and 4.84 times more likely to get covid than if you are fully or partially vaccinated.

And, based on the article, the unvaccinated are 14 times more likely to end up in the ICU versus the fully vaccinated. Those who are partially vaccinated are 3.5 times more likely to end up in the ICU versus the fully vaccinated.

So yeah, keep drinking the Kool-Aid or stay ignorant, whichever the case may be that allows you to think that the article YOU cited shows the vaccines don’t work. “Like anyone with a brain can see,” the article shows that the vaccines ARE working.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

What's even more pathetic are people who ignorantly post numbers to "prove" their point when the totality of those numbers prove the opposite of their point.

According to the article in the above link, 11,824,449 people in Ontario are above 5 years of age. Based on their percentages (80.55% fully vaccinated, 84.39% fully or partially vaccinated, and 15.61% unvaccinated), 9,524,594 people are fully vaccinated, 9,978,653 are partially vaccinated and 2,299,855 are not vaccinated. According to the numbers provided, 499 of the vaccinated recently got covid, 25 of the partially vaccinated got covid, and 469 of the unvaccinated got covid. In other words, 0.0052% of the fully vaccinated got covid, 0.0055% of the partially vaccinated got covid, and 0.025% of the unvaccinated people got covid. What that means is that if you are unvaccinated, you are 4.85 times more likely to get covid than if you are fully vaccinated and 4.84 times more likely to get covid than if you are fully or partially vaccinated.

And, based on the article, the unvaccinated are 14 times more likely to end up in the ICU versus the fully vaccinated. Those who are partially vaccinated are 3.5 times more likely to end up in the ICU versus the fully vaccinated.

So yeah, keep drinking the Kool-Aid or stay ignorant, whichever the case may be that allows you to think that the article YOU cited shows the vaccines don’t work. “Like anyone with a brain can see,” the article shows that the vaccines ARE working.

Hahaha nice rationalization

The vaccine DOESN'T STOP ANYTHING. What's so hard for you to grasp???

Vaccine - a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

Immunity - the ability of an organism to resist a particular infection or toxin by the action of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.

Keep living in your tiny percentages lol

If the vaccine isn't stopping COVID....it's NOT a vaccine. Use common fucking sense

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Hahaha nice rationalization

No rationalization. Just basic, common math. Something you’re apparently not familiar with.

Originally Posted by Huysmans

The vaccine DOESN'T STOP ANYTHING. What's so hard for you to grasp???

What’s so hard for me to grasp??? How anyone could be so willfully ignorant. According to the figures Irv so graciously provided for us, if every person in Ontario contracted covid at the same rate the unvaccinated did, an additional 2,011 people would have contracted covid. That means 2,011 people did not contract covid because of the vaccine. Your statement, “the vaccine DOESN'T STOP ANYTHING” is flat out WRONG.

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Vaccine - a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

Immunity - the ability of an organism to resist a particular infection or toxin by the action of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.

Keep living in your tiny percentages lol

If the vaccine isn't stopping COVID....it's NOT a vaccine. Use common fucking sense

See above. The vaccine IS stopping people from getting covid.

Common sense, something else you’re apparently not familiar with.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

What’s so hard for me to grasp??? How anyone could be so willfully ignorant. According to the figures Irv so graciously provided for us, if every person in Ontario contracted covid at the same rate the unvaccinated did, an additional 2,011 people would have contracted covid. That means 2,011 people did not contract covid because of the vaccine. Your statement, “the vaccine DOESN'T STOP ANYTHING” is flat out WRONG.
.

I believe the point he is making (albeit badly) is that vaccines aren't, in a sense, a prophylactic. Vaccines work by training the immune system to develop an antibody response to the disease. This response may keep the person from developing the disease altogether, which obviously leads to the difference in infection rates you noted in your previous post.

However, while the immune response may not prevent some from the developing the disease anyways, it does help mitigate the severity (and mortality) of the disease. And there is significant information available from healthcare organizations to back this up. It is this latter case that folks who don't understand the science throw up as some sort of argument that vaccines don't work. They start with a nominally true statement and run with it to whatever their predetermined conclusion is.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

I believe the point he is making (albeit badly) is that vaccines aren't, in a sense, a prophylactic. Vaccines work by training the immune system to develop an antibody response to the disease. This response may keep the person from developing the disease altogether, which obviously leads to the difference in infection rates you noted in your previous post.

However, while the immune response may not prevent some from the developing the disease anyways, it does help mitigate the severity (and mortality) of the disease. And there is significant information available from healthcare organizations to back this up. It is this latter case that folks who don't understand the science throw up as some sort of argument that vaccines don't work. They start with a nominally true statement and run with it to whatever their predetermined conclusion is.

I'm not sure I get your point. In his post, he didn't start with "a nominally true statement." He started with a demonstrably false statement/claim (I agree with you that he does claim that the vaccine isn't 100% effective). I disproved that claim with the data Irv was so generous to provide. And even though I'm not a doctor and I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn Express in a long while, I do know the purpose of vaccines, generally how they work, and the fact that no one in their right mind claims they are 100% effective. So again, I'm not sure what your point is.

Maybe I didn't get your point because I was too busy patting myself on the back for ignoring the idiocy that follows from his post. For instance, do you think he wears seatbelts? After all, seatbelts don't prevent injury or death in 100% of the people who wear them, so why wear them according to his "logic"?

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

What's even funnier are people that are told, and can see that numbers are going up DESPITE the vaccine supposedly working, and they STILL live in their delusional "everything I'm being told by the media and government must be 100% correct, and I blindly follow and question nothing despite obvious and glaring contradictions" world.

But yeah, it's the "anti-vaxxers" that are trying to convince themselves lol

Read my previous posts...I am basing my beliefs on Science...has nothing to do with the media or Government. I can clearly tell where you get your facts from (without you even saying it).

Jeff

[ibuysportsephemera]

I'm out...I didn't post here trying to convince anyone to do something that they don't want to do.

I do believe that if you don't want to get the vaccine, you should not be able to go to the hospital to be treated when you get ill. You can't have it both ways.

Jeff

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Read my previous posts...I am basing my beliefs on Science...has nothing to do with the media or Government. I can clearly tell where you get your facts from (without you even saying it).

Jeff

Nice try... You mean the "science" on the left that says individuals born as men can also be women?? Is that the real "science" you're referring to?? lol

I say this with all due respect... try thinking for yourself instead of blindly following the media... You'll be MUCH better off...

[irv]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Hahaha nice rationalization

The vaccine DOESN'T STOP ANYTHING. What's so hard for you to grasp???

Vaccine - a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

Immunity - the ability of an organism to resist a particular infection or toxin by the action of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.

Keep living in your tiny percentages lol

If the vaccine isn't stopping COVID....it's NOT a vaccine. Use common fucking sense

Yep, so much so, the CDC changed the definition of it (see below)

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

I'm out...I didn't post here trying to convince anyone to do something that they don't want to do.

I do believe that if you don't want to get the vaccine, you should not be able to go to the hospital to be treated when you get ill. You can't have it both ways.

Jeff

So, by your analogy, anyone who smokes, drinks, eats unhealthy, is obese/overweight, participates in risky sports/hobbies or doesn't exercise should also not be allowed medical coverage.
Unbelievable, and almost as unbelievable as what you referenced earlier. The guy you know who works for Pfizer and the fact he recommended you get vaccinated. I never would have guessed it. I was certain he would have tried to talk you out of it!!

[ibuysportsephemera]

Just one final thing...Irv...why are you trying so hard? Your posts fill up my 27 inch computer screen.

For all of you that won't get the vaccine, good luck..can you please designate someone to come on here when you are in the hospital on a vent so that we can pray for you.

Back to reading the sports collectibles threads.

Jeff G.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Just one final thing...Irv...why are you trying so hard? Your posts fill up my 27 inch computer screen.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Why is the media trying so hard? If you think others are actin6"in your best interest" your sadly mistaken. Unless it is so you can continue to live in order to pay taxes. Then I see your point

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Nice try... You mean the "science" on the left that says individuals born as men can also be women?? Is that the real "science" you're referring to?? lol

I say this with all due respect... try thinking for yourself instead of blindly following the media... You'll be MUCH better off...

I believe he is referring to the sciences of virology and epidemiology, which is completely unrelated to anything having to do with gender or sex. And his position is consistent with the position of the practitioners of those disciplines.

[G1911]

.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by G1911

I’ll certainly regret this, but I just want to note that appeals to authority are still irrational arguments. Whether it’s one side appealing to Dr. Malone or the other appealing to Dr. Fauci, an argument is not reasonable or unreasonable by the eminence or reputation of one who makes it or supports it, it is reasonable or unreasonable on its foundation, on the logical basis of its supporting facts and evidence, on the merit of itself.

How dare you question His Lordship Doctor Anthony Fauci.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by G1911

I’ll certainly regret this, but I just want to note that appeals to authority are still irrational arguments. Whether it’s one side appealing to Dr. Malone or the other appealing to Dr. Fauci, an argument is not reasonable or unreasonable by the eminence or reputation of one who makes it or supports it, it is reasonable or unreasonable on its foundation, on the logical basis of its supporting facts and evidence, on the merit of itself.

To use a card example, that I am an ‘expert’ on T218 cards does not make my arguments about these cards and their printing any more or less valid than anyone else’s: the validity of our arguments are not because of expertise or claims to such, but is rooted in the merit of our arguments themselves and the evidence.

Furthermore, unlike many fallacious arguments, the appeal to authority does not convince people. There is always another ‘expert’ who can be found to disagree, effectively setting the argument back to square 1. It isn’t compelling, and it’s illogical.

Both sides would be served by recognizing this to some extent.

I don't think you should regret it at all. There is nothing inherently incorrect in what you have said, though I would change your opening sentence to "appeals to authority *may* be irrational arguments."

The issue here, as I see it is that the overwhelming preponderance of research and opinion of actual experts speaks to the efficacy of mRNA vaccines. And while Malone certainly performed some seminal research that led us to mRNA vaccines, there is a tendency to oversell it. The underlying science preceded his groundbreaking work and it has advanced significantly in the 3 decades since.

That isn't to say that a single person standing against the current understanding of a science is necessarily wrong. They may very well be right. But, the case to overturn a scientific paradigm is made in the lab, not on Tucker Carlson.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

You mean the "science" on the left that says individuals born as men can also be women??

Go on...