WW3 Please SAY NO!

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Nothing. The entire basis of human advancement has come from questioning things.

It’s when someone question something, then ignores the it’s verifiable by things like facts, numbers, maths, primary sources, physically verifiable evidence and decides that is “fake” “mis-information” or something else they had someone read to them in coloring book I just because sigh for devolution of humanity.

That’s me though. Could be an outlier or just cynical. Either way I just wish I didn’t see dead kids daily being pulled out cluster bombed apartment buildings across Ukraine or anywhere else for that matter.

What verifiable facts have come out about the Russia/Ukraine situation?

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

What verifiable facts have come out about the Russia/Ukraine situation?

Just gonna throw a wild guess at the wall and say thousands of things reported over the past two weeks, but if you want specifics I’ll go with “your Visa debit card won’t work at the Kremlin gift shop.” That’s a good solid one.

[egri]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Just gonna throw a wild guess at the wall and say thousands of things reported over the past two weeks, but if you want specifics I’ll go with “your Visa debit card won’t work at the Kremlin gift shop.” That’s a good solid one.

Or American Express. Though MasterCard and Discover might still.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by egri

Or American Express. Though MasterCard and Discover might still.

Don’t think American Express is throughout Europe. When I was last in the UK and Ireland no one took it.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Just gonna throw a wild guess at the wall and say thousands of things reported over the past two weeks, but if you want specifics I’ll go with “your Visa debit card won’t work at the Kremlin gift shop.” That’s a good solid one.

What specifically? I've heard a lot of narratives, not so much "verifiable facts".

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

What specifically? I've heard a lot of narratives, not so much "verifiable facts".

I’m not your tutor or baby sitter. If for two weeks the only coverage of the war you’ve processed is “narrative” you’re either lying, slow, or oblivious. If it’s “oblivious” I’ll point you to The Institute for the Study of War. Their daily recaps of the war are pretty sound and in depth. If it’s one of the other two I can’t help you at all. Sorry.

[irv]

Retired U.S. Army Colonel Douglas Macgregor's take and some clarity on the fake news that is being spread by MSM.

"TOP ARMY COLONEL: ‘PUPPET’ ZELENSKY PUTTING HIS PEOPLE AT "UNNECESSARY RISK"
https://rumble.com/vwkbrv-top-army-c...-risk-608.html

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by irv

Retired U.S. Army Colonel Douglas Macgregor's take and some clarity on the fake news that is being spread by MSM.

"TOP ARMY COLONEL: ‘PUPPET’ ZELENSKY PUTTING HIS PEOPLE AT "UNNECESSARY RISK"
https://rumble.com/vwkbrv-top-army-c...-risk-608.html

I originally said I saw this. I actually saw an interview with him on Fox. But he said a lot of the same stuff. He's correct about Zelensky, in my opinion.

[KMayUSA6060]

You can both hate innocent people dying and question things.

Imagine if there were this much outcry against Obama when he let Russia take Crimea (and Georgia, or was that Bush?).

Imagine if the US were to invade sovereign countries under the guise of "saving them", and kill innocent people. Oh wait...

Y'all aren't wrong for hating war. But before you go calling people "Russian stooges" or insinuating others are terrorist apologists, you should be able to answer every question possible.

Why is Zelenskyy being dubbed a hero when all he has done is refuse to negotiate with Russia, then force 18-60 year old makes to stay and fight? He takes opportunistic photos that are nothing but propaganda, yet claims to be on the front lines.

Speaking of Zelenskyy, how closely is he tied to Burisma, the same company that has Hunter Biden, CIA people, etc. all on their board? The owner of the network that produced his show which he rose to fame through is on that board as well.

What does Nordstrom 2 have to do with this?

If what Putin is doing is so atrocious, why haven't US/NATO forces stepped in? If we don't want war but want to protect innocent people, why did we declare war via sanctions and leave the innocent people all but defenseless?

Have people forgotten the level of corruption and meddling the US has done in Ukraine? Or Soros's love of Ukraine?

Why did Obama/Biden allow the Clintons to sell uranium to the Russians?

Why did Biden kill our energy independence, only to buy Russian energy exports?


I'm focused on our involvement in this "conflict". Our government is as much to blame as anyone, yet I don't hear any of that coming from the MSM/news.

[Republicaninmass]

Imagine the US response if Cuba agreed to station Nuclear Missiles.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Imagine the US response if Cuba agreed to station Nuclear Missiles.

Of course, we already know the answer to that, 1962.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Imagine the US response if Cuba agreed to station Nuclear Missiles.

So, are you saying the US should have just straight up attacked Cuba with our full military force?

Since we're imagining things, imagine if the US proposed to actually put nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

What would the acceptable Russian response be to that?

Also, as part of the agreement back in 1962, the US promised not to invade Cuba. As part of the agreement back in 1991 to get nuclear weapons out of Ukraine, Russia agreed not to attack Ukraine.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Why is Zelenskyy being dubbed a hero when all he has done is refuse to negotiate with Russia, then force 18-60 year old makes to stay and fight?

Is he actually forcing people to fight? I had not heard that.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Is he actually forcing people to fight? I had not heard that.

Banned them from leaving, then handed out 10k+ firearms to them. All the while pumping propaganda and false Russian death totals in the beginning to presumably fire up a "fighting spirit".

So semantics would affect the answer to your question.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ng/6936471001/

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

I'm focused on our involvement in this "conflict". Our government is as much to blame as anyone, yet I don't hear any of that coming from the MSM/news.

So you're saying we're as much to blame as Russia for what's happening right now?

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

So you're saying we're as much to blame as Russia for what's happening right now?

Yes.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

You can both hate innocent people dying and question things.

Imagine if there were this much outcry against Obama when he let Russia take Crimea (and Georgia, or was that Bush?).

Apples to oranges. The annexation of Crimea was done under the guise of a “separatist” movement and Russian forces involved did so without flag on their shoulder. There was outcry. It lead to original sanctions and Russia’s eventual expulsion from the G8. The rest is shoulda woulda coulda.


Imagine if the US were to invade sovereign countries under the guise of "saving them", and kill innocent people. Oh wait...



Y'all aren't wrong for hating war. But before you go calling people "Russian stooges" or insinuating others are terrorist apologists, you should be able to answer every question possible.

Why is Zelenskyy being dubbed a hero when all he has done is refuse to negotiate with Russia, then force 18-60 year old makes to stay and fight? He takes opportunistic photos that are nothing but propaganda, yet claims to be on the front lines.

Dude is a hero, but thatÂ’s just my opinion. You claim he refuses to negotiate with Russia is categorically false in every aspect. He has called for direct talks with Putin which so far the Russia leader has refused. His government has twice met for negotiations with Russian leaders. He has been in direct contact with multiple world leaders acting as intermediaries between the two sides including must recently Israeli Prime Minister Bennett.
That claim of yours is idiotically false on all accounts.

He absolutely did close the borders to men 18-60 in the event of needed conscription. True. He did that as the commander in chief of the Ukrainian military because (you know) theyÂ’re currently being invaded (you need a link for that too)?


DudeÂ’s the leader of the Democratic government under invasion (once again you require a primary source?) Of course heÂ’s not trying to flank column with a Javelin. That propaganda you call him out on is letting his country know heÂ’s still there for them and not fleeing in the night - considering you know they are rising together to fend off an invading force.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...r-plant-putin/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...%3fid=83226054



Speaking of Zelenskyy, how closely is he tied to Burisma, the same company that has Hunter Biden, CIA people, etc. all on their board? The owner of the network that produced his show which he rose to fame through is on that board as well.

What is GodÂ’s name does any of that have to do with another country INVADING a sovereign country to overthrow itÂ’s democratically elected government. ItÂ’s also possible he has Dollywood passes. How close is he to Folly Parton? Know one knows!

Even then and clap with me as I this YOU. DONT. INVADE. A. SOVEREIGN. COUNTRY. AND. BOMB. THEIR. CIVIALIANS. BECAUSE. YOU. DONÂ’T. LIKE. WHO. THEIR. LEADER. IS.

ThatÂ’s article 2 section 4 of the UN bylaws and charter if need reference.

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter/full-text




What does Nordstrom 2 have to do with this?

CLAP with me and read that last part again.

If what Putin is doing is so atrocious, why haven't US/NATO forces stepped in? If we don't want war but want to protect innocent people, why did we declare war via sanctions and leave the innocent people all but defenseless?

Because anyone with even elementary knowledge of Geopolitics knows a lethal dispute between NATO and Russia carries a large chance of nuclear response for either or both sides. Literally my 11 year old understands that. NATO keeps “calculated ambiguity” to whether or not they maintain a “use first” doctrine in the event of a lethal dispute - but without doubt the chances they are tactically used increases exponentially if the two sides met on the battlefield.


https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1999...nale-first-use



Have people forgotten the level of corruption and meddling the US has done in Ukraine? Or Soros's love of Ukraine?

I honestly donÂ’t think the give two shits about about this idiotic ramble considering they are being invaded and having their sovereignty compromised. Could be wrong. They could sit around a camp fire and cook up all kinds of X-Files BS, but just an educated guess is they just want the 100,000+ invading troops, artillery leveling their cities, missiles killing many, and hired mercenaries to GTFO.

Why did Obama/Biden allow the Clintons to sell uranium to the Russians?

For the life of me I donÂ’t have a clue what this has do with a nation invading and trying to overthrow a democratically elected government of a sovereign nation.

Why did Biden kill our energy independence, only to buy Russian energy exports?

The same.

I'm focused on our involvement in this "conflict". Our government is as much to blame as anyone, yet I don't hear any of that coming from the MSM/news.

Read slowly. Our. Government. Did. Not. Invade. The. Sovereign. Nation. Of. Ukraine.

Answered above.

[Shoeless Moe]

Well found Putin & Zelensky's 1st meeting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du2DjJEtc0k

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Why is Zelenskyy being dubbed a hero when all he has done is refuse to negotiate with Russia, then force 18-60 year old makes to stay and fight? He takes opportunistic photos that are nothing but propaganda, yet claims to be on the front lines.

This is spot on and something that really bothers me about the media and society all together. So quick to automatically declare someone is heroic because it just "feels right" so everyone just runs with it.

I was disgusted at a CNN headline today comparing Zelenskyy to Churchill... reminded me of some member of congress shouting at a member of Trump's cabinet, don't recall who or the particular matter, "Sir, do you not have any decency!" only to see all the cretins cheer on the cringeworthy imitation. It seems our culture relies on what might as well be thespians spewing cheesy lines and rhetoric for inspiration. I'm a conservative (I guess?), but this is pervasive across Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc. and anyone who can't acknowledge that their preferred news source isn't just as biased is living in a fantasy world. It's all the same tomfoolery and I'm as ashamed of someone I probably agree with as much as the prima donnas I oppose for falling for the ruse.

I think we're already living in some type of satirical dystopia... Seems as though the likely outcome of this conflict will either take the humous part of that out of that equation or, hopefully, back to some version of a sane world.

BTW, I hope Zelenskyy does prove to be heroic but to me that's a very serious word to throw around... akin to labeling someone a HOF caliber player.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

This is spot on and something that really bothers me about the media and society all together. So quick to automatically declare someone is heroic because it just "feels right" so everyone just runs with it.

Maybe - and bear with me because this might sound crazy - it “feels right” for people who love their country for all it faults, no matter where that may be, to label someone heroic when that person heads the democratically elected government of a nation being invaded by someone bent on destroying that right of self governance and (here’s where it gets crazy) then in the face of all odds and with free western governments offering him heli-ubers left and right stays with his people as they fight the invading force.