1933 Goudey Ruth #144 or 1921 Exhibit Ruth?

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by tkd

I look at the Goudey Ruth #144 as Ruth's single most recognized, iconic card. Kinda like the 52 topps Mantle.

Agreed! As you mention, that is the exact reason the 52 Topps Mantle, 2nd year, is more valuable than the 51 Mantle. As far as which card and pose is more iconic (1921 Exhibits vs #144), #144 wins all day every day. But if I had to choose which to buy with $X right now, I am taking the Exhibits Ruth, no question.

Here is an interesting question: #144 Goudey Ruth is likely more iconic a card and pose than the 1917 Ruth throwing cards. Would you rather spend $100k on a 1933 #144 Goudey Ruth (probably in a 7) or $100k on a 1917 Ruth (probably in a 1.5)?

Leon, its been a long day.... (long week actually)!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Absent an unusual find or someone letting go of a hoard, the relative quantities of these cards is going to remain the same in the future. So why is it that in the future, rarity is going to dictate value more than it already does?

It reminds me of those endless posts about how Musial and Eddie Collins and Spahn are undervalued, and SOMEDAY, the market is going to value them correctly. Why?

[JeremyW]

Just a guess, but people will realize the scarcity?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

Just a guess, but people will realize the scarcity?

The information is already out there and has been for years. The market is extremely efficient.

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The information is already out there and has been for years. The market is extremely efficient.

I think that there are new buyers who don't actually know.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

I think that there are new buyers who don't actually know.

Based on what? And further, why do you assume they care?

[parkplace33]

144. Go with the best and most popular Ruth.

[JeremyW]

I assume that they don't care & are only looking for profits.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The information is already out there and has been for years. The market is extremely efficient.

Exhibits and postcards were always second fiddle to gum and candy cards. I can only assume that trend will continue

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Exhibits and postcards were always second fiddle to gum and candy cards. I can only assume that trend will continue

There are exceptions like the 25 Gehrig, but I tend to agree that while Exhibits and Postcards may have moved off their "oddball" status, they still are not viewed as equal to the more traditional cards.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There are exceptions like the 25 Gehrig, but I tend to agree that while Exhibits and Postcards may have moved off their "oddball" status, they still are not viewed as equal to the more traditional cards.

Agreed. Cards are king. I think postcards and exhibits have become much much more accepted, but they are nevertheless (usually) second fiddle. That said, I think people now more widely recognize that a PC (Gehrig or Cobb) or a Cabinet (Plank, Wagner, Matty, Cobb) can be a rookie "card". I dont think the hobby is there yet with supplements, advertising pieces, magazines, scorecards, programs, etc. For now, those seem to be "other" whereas post cards and cabinets seems to be more accepted as "cards"(ish)

[Jstottlemire1]

I’d have to say I’d rather own the 21’ I hope to add one soon also. The #144 is crazy in demand and from a huge set like all have stated. The fielding poses are pretty coveted though also I feel along with cards with him pitching and or throwing as well.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There are exceptions like the 25 Gehrig, but I tend to agree that while Exhibits and Postcards may have moved off their "oddball" status, they still are not viewed as equal to the more traditional cards.

agreed and I would love to someday own a Rookie 25 Gehrig. They are great looking cards

[HistoricNewspapers]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Absent an unusual find or someone letting go of a hoard, the relative quantities of these cards is going to remain the same in the future. So why is it that in the future, rarity is going to dictate value more than it already does?

It reminds me of those endless posts about how Musial and Eddie Collins and Spahn are undervalued, and SOMEDAY, the market is going to value them correctly. Why?

For almost every card throughout time, the older the card for a player the more valuable/desirable it tends to be with a few notable exceptions. In time as more modern collectors venture into the pre war era, or new collectors enter, the early Ruth card automatically has that advantage of being an early playing days card.

The fact that it is more rare, if ten new serious buyers venture into the market searching for the 1921 Ruth and 10 new buyers enter searching for the 1933 Goudey...it has greater potential for bidding wars on the scarcer card since there are much less opportunities to buy one.

The same can be said of Ruth's 1920's caramel cards. More rare and early playing days.

As for Spahn, Collins, Musial etc...preferences change. Soon there will be nobody left on earth who actually saw any of them play or formed any personal connection to them to make them want to buy their cards(popularity). So the 'trend' of owning Mickey Mantle above everyone else will lose its luster as some point, especially with the trend toward baseball statistical evaluations that paint a more accurate picture of how good everyone in history actually was(not that Mantle was not elite, just that his card prices above Mays/Aaron don't reflect that Mays and Aaron actually had better careers, not just peak years).

In the year 2050, collectors wanting the best players of a generation may very well look a stat like WAR( which will be mainstream by then), and see that Eddie Collins is the tenth best of all time, and that may hold a lot of weight as to who they should buy.

Or in short, preferences simply change over time, so if you are holding the rarer item and there is any type of increase in demand, then you are holding the lottery ticket.

[tkd]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Agreed! As you mention, that is the exact reason the 52 Topps Mantle, 2nd year, is more valuable than the 51 Mantle. As far as which card and pose is more iconic (1921 Exhibits vs #144), #144 wins all day every day. But if I had to choose which to buy with $X right now, I am taking the Exhibits Ruth, no question.

Here is an interesting question: #144 Goudey Ruth is likely more iconic a card and pose than the 1917 Ruth throwing cards. Would you rather spend $100k on a 1933 #144 Goudey Ruth (probably in a 7) or $100k on a 1917 Ruth (probably in a 1.5)?

Leon, its been a long day.... (long week actually)!

1917 Ruth all the way in a 1.5
Red Sox Ruth cards are awesome and extremely low quantity compared to Yankees Ruth's
As for the 21 exhibit I truly think it could pop in value kinda like 21 American Caramel did.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by tkd

1917 Ruth all the way in a 1.5
Red Sox Ruth cards are awesome and extremely low quantity compared to Yankees Ruth's

So to me, the arguments for the 1917 Ruth over #144 are exactly the same as the 1921 Exhibits Ruth over the #144, albeit the 1917 arguments are more compelling. At the end of the day, the reasons the 1917 is a no brainer vs #144 are (i) red sox, (ii) super early, and (iii) scarcity. The 1921 Exhibits is not red sox, but it is very very early yankees, its not 1917 but 1921 is much earlier in Ruth's career than 1933, and 1921 Exhibits is not as scarce as 1917 but certainly much more scarce that #144. Anyway, maybe none of that makes sense - I would still take the 1921 Exhibits over the #144.

And, I would take a 1917 PSA (or SGC) 1.5 over a #144 PSA 7. That said, a PSA 7 #144 is one hell of a card to own.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by tkd

1917 Ruth all the way in a 1.5
Red Sox Ruth cards are awesome and extremely low quantity compared to Yankees Ruth's
As for the 21 exhibit I truly think it could pop in value kinda like 21 American Caramel did.

+1 Agreed

I would go for the 1917 Red Sox Ruth Over the Goudey Ruth. I am biased since I do have a 1917 Ruth and someday hope to get the 1933 Cards but still working on the early era cards first.

But Ruth of any card or PC is fantastic but the Rarity of the Red Sox Era, both in quantity of cards but also in the low number of types of cards for Ruth(especially since played short time there compared to Yankees)

[ullmandds]

I've owned all the goudey ruths at one time or another...some more than once. They're cool...but I've always favored scarce issues over more common ones...hence my disdain for t206. . Aaaaand...they're kinda cartoony?

The ruth pose (144) is available in a number of other issues too. Blue bird, goudey premium...fro joy premium...I'm sure there are others? I have the blue bird and the goudey premium...I like seeing the background details while I'm not a huge fan of these issues sizes?

The 1921 exhibit is a cool...unique pose...except for the shapira...the strip version of the same pose. I love seeing the babes glove...and he's svelt...and young. And it's early. I used to be size biased only preferring standard sized cards...but over the last 20 years many oversized cards have joined my collection so I now have a whole box of them...so they are more conveniently stored with each other as opposed to being a few oddsized cards with my gobbs of standard sized cards.

There are many important cards...cobb rookies...early ruths...gehrig, foxx rookies...that are postcard sized. I consider oversized cards essential to my collection...and I think many more experienced collectors appreciate their relative rarity.

I prefer the 1921 ruth over any of the goudeys for these reasons.

But boy would I love a pre 1918 ruth card!!!!!

[investinrookies]

A lot of good opinions and advise came out of this posting. While it is just a hobby, I always enjoy reading and gathing information on specific cards.

[Leon]

I was 3rd under bidder, I believe, in the MH auction on a really nice Goudey 144 in a 7. I think it went for around 165k after BP.

I think the '21 Exhibit is a great card too. I will have one someday and have bid on many. Classic also...

The 1917 Ruth cards are awesome. I wish I could afford one.

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Agreed! As you mention, that is the exact reason the 52 Topps Mantle, 2nd year, is more valuable than the 51 Mantle. As far as which card and pose is more iconic (1921 Exhibits vs #144), #144 wins all day every day. But if I had to choose which to buy with $X right now, I am taking the Exhibits Ruth, no question.

Here is an interesting question: #144 Goudey Ruth is likely more iconic a card and pose than the 1917 Ruth throwing cards. Would you rather spend $100k on a 1933 #144 Goudey Ruth (probably in a 7) or $100k on a 1917 Ruth (probably in a 1.5)?

Leon, its been a long day.... (long week actually)!