|
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Unless you think me having him at 3rd all time is ludicrously high, how can he be overrated at all, let alone the MOST overrated second basemen of all time, which is what putting him on your list represents. Shouldn't that "honor" be saved for someone who is ranked 10 or 20 spots too high as opposed to maybe one or two spots too high?
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I don't see how you could call Jackie overrated as a player unless you think WAR is a complete joke. As you pointed out, he put up 60 War in fewer than 1,500 games. The only others in history with as high a WAR in fewer than 1,500 games? “Shoeless” Joe Jackson (62.1 WAR in 1,332 games) and Mike Trout (76.1 WAR in 1,288 games). https://www.mlb.com/news/most-underrated-hall-of-famers In Jackie's 5 year peak from 1949 thru 1953 his WAR was 9.3, 7.4, 9.7, 8.4, 6.9 for an absurd average of 8.34. People win MVP with 8 or less WAR on a regular basis. I think the only way you could say Jackie is overrated is to say that his cards sell for too much. Which again, I think is a lousy argument, considering that he completely transformed the game. Last edited by cgjackson222; 09-21-2022 at 03:21 PM. |
#4
|
||||
|
||||
I limited my list to players who played at least part of their careers in my lifetime. Admitted bias as I never really cared for any of these guys other than Reggie.
C: IRod 1b: Bagwell 2b: Alomar 3b: Edgar Martinez SS: Ozzie Smith LF: Rose CF: Snider RF: Reggie SP: Glavine
__________________
If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#6
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I would not say that Jackie is overrated by any stretch of the imagination. I also don't think he's underrated.
__________________
⚾️ Successful transactions with: npa589, OhioCardCollector, BaseballChuck, J56baseball, Ben Yourg, helfrich91, oldjudge, tlwise12, inceptus, gfgcom, rhodeskenm, Moonlight Graham Last edited by Rad_Hazard; 09-21-2022 at 03:52 PM. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
In 1999, the Major League Baseball All-Century Team was chosen by popular vote of fans. To select the team, a panel of experts first compiled a list of the 100 greatest Major League Baseball players from the past 20th century. Over two million fans then voted on the players using paper and online ballots. The top two vote-getters from each position were placed on the team. Here are the Shortstops on the list to vote for: Rod Carew, Eddie Collins, Frankie Frisch, Charlie Gehringer, Rogers Hornsby, Napoleon Lajoie, Joe Morgan and Jackie Robinson. Robinson came in 1st with 788,116 votes Hornsby came in 2nd with 630,761 votes I would say 788,116 think Robinson is the greatest 2nd basemen of all time. I would personally say as great as he was, at least 788,116 people overrate him. |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#9
|
||||
|
||||
In a few special cases, yes, agreed. That said, I would rate Jackie around 4th or 5th.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
My view is Jackie being overrated is an attempt at a hot take that is tried so often it’s a cold take. 7 straight years with MVP shares. Guy was pretty sick at 2B. If anything I think he’s underrated.
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Billy Herman is in the hall with a lower WAR than Jackie's 10 year career in 15 years. Mazeroski barely got to HALF of Jackie's total in 17 years. You don't see anyone wushing to put Frank White in the HOF and he's damn near the identical player to Mazeroski. If we're going with MOST overrated I just don't see how it can be a guy who averaged 6 WAR. If you like counting stats then Jackie can't be your guy, but fer cryin' out loud he's 16th all-time in WAR at the position in half the time of a lot of the guys ahead of him, and many of them only beat him by a hair. If you look at WAR 7 he jumps to 5th all time, WAR5C Also 5th all time, and again his major league career didn't start until he was 28.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 09-22-2022 at 06:28 AM. |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
P Bert Blyleven
C Ted Simmons 1b David Ortiz 2b Red Schoendienst SS Derek Jeter 3b Edgar Martinez LF Barry Bonds CF Mickey Mantle RF Hank Aaron |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
You always have an interesting POV. Can you explain the outfield?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
When you play defense like at 5:30 of this video and get gifted gold gloves - You Are Overrated! When your home park is the easiest stadium in baseball to hit home runs in, and you need your team to move the fences in to make it easier for you to hit home runs - You Are Overrated! When you need to use steroids to improve your performance - You Are Overrated! When your cards are worth more than those of Ted Williams, Stan Musial and Willie Mays even though you weren't as good as them - You Are Overrated! |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I don't think many people would vote for Billy Herman or Mazeroski as the greatest ever at their position. The majority of people that voted in the All Century poll did vote for Robinson as the greatest 2nd basemen ever. You stated I don't think anyone considers him the greatest second basemen of all time and clearly many people do. I cannot think of another player that comes close to Robinson at having his status as the greatest at his position be based more on his reputation than his performance. All that said, i do think Robinson was a great player, one of the greatest, and probably a even better human being. It's not his fault his ML career started so late but the truth is his numbers just don't add up to being the greatest at his position as many people seem to rank him. This is why i think he is one of the most overrated players. People seem to think being labeled overrated is a huge putdown but i don't. In Robinson and Clementes' case it is probably a compliment to know that so many people rate you that highly based on what you did off the field as much or more than what you did on the field. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
There are a group of players who a large part of the baseball fan world do not want to hear anything about that does not further the legend and myth. Ruth fans don't get upset if someone makes a fat joke. Williams fans don't get upset if someone says he could have played nicer with the press. One doesn't even have to say anything actually negative of Jackie, of Clemente, of Ryan, of Koufax, just not further the legend to rankle some feathers. It's a mark of an overrated player. Jackie's short career (his Negro League career was 1 season, 1945, which count as the majors now) was because of WWII and college. He spent only one season in the minor leagues, not exactly an unfair amount of time. That he chose to retire instead of play out the rest of his decline with the Giants protects his percentages, which have been the primary basis for ranking him fairly high among 2B as a top ten. Another mark of an overrated player is they are the ones that tend to get people wanting to count fantasy seasons as if they had happened, not as a hypothetical 'what if', but for actual ranking credit. |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
I keep losing track of whether I'm on the underrated or overrated threads.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I will say I was surprised that so many people picked him at number one, but nobody with an ounce of analytical ability would do that. That being said taking in a sample of baseball sites just in the order they pop up on google they have him rated 8th, 3rd, 4th, 7th and 5th. I'd argue with 7th and 8th, that they are relying too much on counting stats, but still that averages out to 5th. To me even if you meant overrated by the general public the leap from 5th to 1st is less than Mazeroski's leap from MAYBE top 50 to HOF, leapfrogging a couple dozen guys with better numbers.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Mazeroski is almost universally regarded by the very knowledgeable as a poor choice for the Hall and a mistake. In fact, its difficult to bring up his name in such company and not get a comment to that effect almost immediately. Same for Schoendienst, et alii. The general public does not know who Schoendienst et alii even are and might know Mazeroski for a World Series homer.
Meanwhile, Jackie is a top 5 player at any position all time in the public eye. He was an excellent to great player for ~8 seasons. He seems to easily qualify for the players whose acclaim is most distant from their measurable, statistical performance. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Tennessee overrated again... | CMIZ5290 | Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk | 1 | 09-01-2016 09:20 PM |
overrated and underrated | Touch'EmAll | Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk | 25 | 09-24-2012 12:26 PM |
Most Overrated Pre-War Player is... | mintacular | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 88 | 01-19-2011 06:10 PM |
PSA 10's - most are overrated | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 60 | 12-08-2007 08:21 PM |
Overrated? | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 47 | 05-28-2006 11:38 AM |