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#51
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Little David was feeling left out, so here is a card of him...a 2006 Topps Heritage (1957 style) picturing him, fittingly, as a San Diego Padres player.
Brian (card not mine) Last edited by brianp-beme; 10-21-2022 at 02:35 PM. Reason: reduced image size...didn't want Roberts head so swollen |
#52
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Great teams don’t necessarily have a boatload of HOFers. More likely than not they have a bunch of really good players who just fall short of HOF caliber. The great Yankee teams of the late 1990s were great because of guys like Paul O’Neill, Tina Martinez, David Cone, Scott Brosius, David Wells, Jorge Posada, Andy Pettitte, etc. Same with the Yankee teams of the fifties and early sixties.
As for Stengel, I think he was a horrible manager. He cost the Yankees the 1960 series by not starting Ford, after he requested to be started on short rest, in game 7. I don’t think Robert’s is particularly bad or particularly good, just an average stat executor. |
#53
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Quote:
__________________
“Hypocrisy is a tribute vice pays to virtue” - Francois de La Rochefoucauld. If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President. |
#54
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It would have been a moot point if he started Ford in game one. Ford threw two complete game shutouts in games three and six. If he had started game one he would have been rested for a game seven if necessary. BTW, the Yankees fired Stengel after that debacle.
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#55
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Berra, possibly the greatest catcher ever
Dimaggio (a super star through 1950, 3 rings with Stengel) and Mantle, 2 of the top 5 or so greatest center fielders ever. Ford, one of the greatest lefties. If the Stengel Yankees teams didn't have 'top tier' players as well as lots of the really good variety, I am hard pressed to think of a single team that ever has. The Yankees were not a collection of good players lacking superstars, by any definition that does not exclude basically every single team in baseball history. Last edited by G1911; 10-21-2022 at 04:53 PM. |
#56
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Quote:
EDITED TO ADD: I don't disagree that the pundits and world-renown baseball experts in New York to this day blame Stengel for not starting Ford in Game 1. I do disagree with the logic that it was the reason Pittsburgh won the Series.
__________________
“Hypocrisy is a tribute vice pays to virtue” - Francois de La Rochefoucauld. If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President. Last edited by nolemmings; 10-21-2022 at 05:36 PM. |
#57
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I'm not sure it's the managers fault when three of his four starting pitchers put up ERAs 5.40 or higher in the playoffs.
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#58
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On one of my auction house dives I found this photo of Casey from 1913. No idea what he's doing but I thought it was funny and had to share.
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My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection My Baseball Snapshot Photo collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/snapshotcollection |
#59
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I think Red truly stands alone in longevity. Counting minors, Essentially 1942-2018 (he did still help coach in 2018) he was part of professional baseball as a player, manager, coach or assistant. 67 of the 76 years being with the cardinals. One of the reasons I love collecting him!
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My Red Schoendienst collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/redsc...enstcollection My Baseball Snapshot Photo collection- https://imageevent.com/lucas00/snapshotcollection Last edited by Lucas00; 10-24-2022 at 10:29 PM. |
#60
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By my count, since that 1949-53 run, five different teams have played at a 100-win (or better) pace for five years. Those are the teams you would think might win five World Series in a row, or at least 4 of 5.
But those five teams combined for seven World Series titles, and none won more than two: Yankees 1954-58 .631 (102 wins per year in a 162-game season) - 2 WS titles Yankees 1960-64 .630 (102) - 2 WS titles Reds 1972-76 .626 (101) - 2 WS titles Braves 1996-2000 .619 (100) - 0 WS titles Dodgers 2017-21 or 2018-22 .636 (103) or .646 (105) - 1 WS title The 5 WS titles in 5 years looks pretty good in comparison.
__________________
Looking for a 1998 Bryan Braves (non-perforated) Kerry Ligtenberg. |
#61
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Quote:
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 10-26-2022 at 06:49 PM. |
#62
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You mean Aaron Boone?
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Successful B/S/T deals with asoriano, obcbobd, x2dRich2000, eyecollectvintage, RepublicaninMass, Kwikford, Oneofthree67, jfkheat, scottglevy, whitehse, GoldenAge50s, Peter Spaeth, Northviewcats, megalimey, BenitoMcNamara, Edwolf1963, mightyq, sidepocket, darwinbulldog, jasonc, jessejames, sb1, rjackson44, bobbyw8469, quinnsryche, Carter08, philliesfan and ALBB, Buythatcard and JimmyC so far. |
#63
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In any event, it's interesting that most regular season dynasties are only marginally successful in the postseason, but that the 1949-53 Yankees, for whatever reason, managed to extend their dominance to the World Series.
__________________
Looking for a 1998 Bryan Braves (non-perforated) Kerry Ligtenberg. |
#64
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Stengel started Whitey Ford in game 1 in 1955, 1956, 1957 and 1958. After Stengel was replaced by Ralph Houk, Houk started Whitey Ford in game 1 in 1961, 1962, 1963 and 1964. It is not hindsight to say it was a mistake to not start Ford in game 1. Stengel wasn't replaced only because he mismanaged the 1960 World Series. The Yankees owners were upset with Stengel back to 1957. He was observed falling asleep during games. His players were partying too much, including a fight at the Copacabana that resulted in Hank Bauer being arrested. Stengel would have been let go in 1958 if the Yankees didn't come back to win the World Series. Not winning in 1959 & 1960 made it easy to move on to Ralph Houk, who led the Yankees to Championships in 1961 & 1962. Last edited by rats60; 10-27-2022 at 09:34 AM. |
#65
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No one says Ford could not or should not have started Game 1. It is simply not even close to a given that it would have made the Yankees winners of the Series. It also shifts blame from a pathetic bullpen effort in game 7 that coughed up a three-run lead with six outs to go. Actually more than coughed it up-- surrendering 5 to the Bucs in the 8th and requiring the offense to come back for it to even get to the bottom of the 9th. You are correct that Stengel's fate was not determined by that loss-- the parties had been coy about his future before the Series even started, given his age. Houk was hired because he was basically offered the Tigers job and was going out the door if the Yankees didn't act, although that doesn't mean Stengel would have stuck around otherwise. And no doubt Yankee upper management was demanding and unrealistic in expecting annual World Series championships, much like now. See Exhibit "A"-- Yogi Berra. Thanks for the 99 wins in '64 as a rookie skipper Yogi, but losing to Gibson and the Cardinals in seven is inexcusable. You're fired. (Probably because he didn't pitch Whitey in that game 7, even though Ford had pitched the opener and got torched). As for the notion that Yankee player partying was a factor, I doubt it. If so, Houk and followers did no better, at least if you believe Jim Bouton's tales of Mickey, Whitey et. al's activities in the 60s.
__________________
“Hypocrisy is a tribute vice pays to virtue” - Francois de La Rochefoucauld. If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President. Last edited by nolemmings; 10-27-2022 at 11:23 AM. |
#66
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The trouble is not that players have sex the night before a game. It's that they stay out all night looking for it. Casey Stengel
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
Tags |
dodgers, mantle, roberts, stengel, yankees |
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