Indians/Guardians and the Topps History Police

[packs]

Changing the team listing has happened before. Take a look at the Joe Morgan cards from 2015 or 2016 Topps Archives. The backs list the “Houston Colts” and not the Colt 45’s. I don’t remember a lot of complaints and maybe people didn’t even notice for the most part.

[JustinD]

I’ve thought the 1903 Cleveland naming contest was a hilarious glimpse into the the future. This exerpt was from an NBC Sports article in 2014 on the many transitions to get to the Indians.

“ OK. Well, let’s get through the inaccuracies. Cleveland baseball had a long and mostly losing battle with team nicknames before 1915. They had been the Infants, the Spiders, the Bronchos, the Blues and unofficially they had been the Exiles, the Castoffs, the Misfits, the Molly McGuires (for a brief time in 1910) and countless other names. I had no idea until I went back and looked how much people HATED the nickname Spiders, which I always thought was kind of cool. The nickname confusion got so bad that in 1903, a Cleveland newspaper actually DID have a contest to name the team and the choices were so uninspiring and uninteresting (Cyclops? Excelsiors? Gladiators? Thistles?) that they finally voted on just naming the team after Cleveland’s best player, Napoleon Lajoie. That’s how they became the Cleveland Naps.”

Even in 1903, the Gladiators name was an uninspired joke of a thought, but just like the every 15 year return of bell bottoms, bad ideas always seems to somehow float back to the top.

Not the worst name in sports as that for me will always be the Anaheim Mighty Ducks and the NHL for selling out so horrifically they allowed naming an expansion team after an unwatchable children’s movie. It took away the integrity of an entire league in one swift move. I guess we could have had the Cleveland Garfield’s and just had orange striped unis and it would have been little difference. Also, really not much less blah then their choice.

I think it is important both as I mentioned earlier, having a city name causes confusion as just listing “New York”, “Los Angeles”, or others. It also places a more important timeline in your head and better assimilation for the reader. I can’t possibly count how many complaints I have read on this site about unlicensed cards, but now we need just city designations?

I obviously do not like the Gladiator name but I want it on the card just like the Indians, Redskins, Bullets, Colt 45’s and all the others to denote time.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I’ve thought the 1903 Cleveland naming contest was a hilarious glimpse into the the future. This exerpt was from an NBC Sports article in 2014 on the many transitions to get to the Indians.

“ OK. Well, let’s get through the inaccuracies. Cleveland baseball had a long and mostly losing battle with team nicknames before 1915. They had been the Infants, the Spiders, the Bronchos, the Blues and unofficially they had been the Exiles, the Castoffs, the Misfits, the Molly McGuires (for a brief time in 1910) and countless other names. I had no idea until I went back and looked how much people HATED the nickname Spiders, which I always thought was kind of cool. The nickname confusion got so bad that in 1903, a Cleveland newspaper actually DID have a contest to name the team and the choices were so uninspiring and uninteresting (Cyclops? Excelsiors? Gladiators? Thistles?) that they finally voted on just naming the team after Cleveland’s best player, Napoleon Lajoie. That’s how they became the Cleveland Naps.”

Even in 1903, the Gladiators name was an uninspired joke of a thought, but just like the every 15 year return of bell bottoms, bad ideas always seems to somehow float back to the top.

Not the worst name in sports as that for me will always be the Anaheim Mighty Ducks and the NHL for selling out so horrifically they allowed naming an expansion team after an unwatchable children’s movie. It took away the integrity of an entire league in one swift move. I guess we could have had the Cleveland Garfield’s and just had orange striped unis and it would have been little difference. Also, really not much less blah then their choice.

I think it is important both as I mentioned earlier, having a city name causes confusion as just listing “New York”, “Los Angeles”, or others. It also places a more important timeline in your head and better assimilation for the reader. I can’t possibly count how many complaints I have read on this site about unlicensed cards, but now we need just city designations?

I obviously do not like the Gladiator name but I want it on the card just like the Indians, Redskins, Bullets, Colt 45’s and all the others to denote time.

Hate the new name as well. Don't understand the problem just using the name Indians, but no more Chief Wahoo. Atlanta isn't being pressured to do away with the Braves name (And what about their tomahawk chop chant?). I guess the native Americans view the word "Indian" as culturally derogatory, right? And that is why they don't want us to use it (and same reason you can't buy E$k!m@ Pies anymore either). Anyway, I'll continue referring to them as the "Indians", or as "the Tribe".

As for the name change, I thought it may have been neat to try going back to the "Naps". Has some historical significance and a Cleveland connection. Also, it's a nice, short, simple name that is easy to remember and rolls off the tongue. Oh well!

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by packs

Changing the team listing has happened before. Take a look at the Joe Morgan cards from 2015 or 2016 Topps Archives. The backs list the “Houston Colts” and not the Colt 45’s. I don’t remember a lot of complaints and maybe people didn’t even notice for the most part.

I don’t think I ever saw a airbrushed logo coverup, nor were the .45s told to change the name. It was just to honor the space program with the Astrodome. As for Topps archives treatment, I’m sure they likely are doing it for PC reasons but the Colts was an acceptable designation as it just rolled off the tongue better. The jerseys did not have .45, just the hat. They also played at Colt Stadium.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I don’t think I ever saw a airbrushed logo coverup, nor were the .45s told to change the name. It was just to honor the space program with the Astrodome. As for Topps archives treatment, I’m sure they likely are doing it for PC reasons but the Colts was an acceptable designation as it just rolled off the tongue better. The jerseys did not have .45, just the hat. They also played at Colt Stadium.

The story I've always heard is that it was largely due to problems with Colt and merchandise. Colt gave permission to use the name, named after the 1873 Colt Single Action Army revolver, but argued with the Astros after a couple years over merchandise revenue. They may well have been cutting into Colt's own revenue of branded material, though Colt wasn't exactly suffering at this time. Colt is still around and typically is pretty responsive, if slow, to people about inquiries into their archive. Probably worth an interesting look into the primary source material at some point here. Most clubs early histories are a fun dive of forgotten material.

The Colt .45's were definitely often referred to at the time as the Colts or sometimes the .45's. I suspect this has nothing to do with people being offended, but just the tendency to shorten names whenever it flows off the tongue fine to do that.

It's a shame Joe Morgan never had a full career contemporary card in a .45's uniform, just the half rookie with the cap. Series 1 of 1965 has them as the .45's, series 2 until the end as the Astros without any logo. An Astros logo only appears in the final series with the Astro's Rookie Stars card that has 3 of the new hats.

[JustinD]

I do remember the 50th anniversary game in 2012 the Astros wore the full Unis. The League originally asked to nix the revolver but acquiesced.

That was a cool game to see,