Buying collections - can this work?

[Belfast1933]

I’m thinking about how to get more active in the area of buying out full collections.

I attend local shows from time to time and I often collector/sellers moving from table to table looking to sell (usually individual cards and more often, modern not vintage)

I am toying with the idea of setting up as a “dealer” at a few local shows with the sole intent to purchase vintage cards and vintage collections. I’d be open to making purchases on the spot, of course… but I wonder if this may also open up to opportunities to talk and network with collectors who may want to liquidate cards in bulk, etc.

I’d welcome your thoughts on whether this might be worth the effort. (And I’d love to also hear your other ideas on how to start to become more front & center buying out vintage collections)

Thx for your thoughts

Jeff

[raulus]

You can always try it out and see how it goes.

There's an old military quote that "no plan survives contact with the enemy."

Rather than spend too much time engaged in excessive omphaloskepsis and theorizing on the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, I'd be inclined to give a few things a try, and see if they stick. If it's not working, then you can always adjust and/or abandon your approach. Another part of the fun here is that it's likely to be very lumpy. You might land a big collection at one show, and then nothing for the next 3.

The economist/business part of me does think that you'll be better off if you can somehow differentiate yourself from the "other guys". Obviously there's a lot of competition out there in this space buying up collections. Your differentiation might just be geographic. Or you might be willing to travel further than others are willing to go. The table at a show approach could theoretically be a differentiating factor, especially if you're at shows where the "other guys" aren't showing up.

It does strike me that you'll need some way to find:

1) People with collections
2) Who are ready to sell, and sell now
3) Who are willing to sell at wholesale prices

I'll go out on a limb and guess that for the most part, the people who fall into this category are probably either heirs, people who haven't collected for a while, or old guys who are just ready to be done (or need the money fast), and willing to sacrifice on price in order to get it done fast.

The only question in my mind is whether those people are the kinds of people who go to shows, or whether you need some other approach to reach them. I see lots of those "other guys" advertising on hobby sites online and in trade magazines, so that's another alternative, although it might be difficult to stand out in that crowd.

[savedfrommyspokes]

In the past, I have bought out collections from collectors, usually by word of mouth. Besides the time, I have found that with what I have paid, this approach is generally fairly profitable.

However, some of the quickest money I have ever made is by reviewing collections and connecting the collector to an AH that would best serve their needs. A recent referral I made netted the collector nearly $30k for their collection and they paid me $500 for my time to review the collection (an hour or so), provide my recommendation on selling and reaching out initially to an AH. From a time standpoint, the several times I have made an AH referral to a collector, this has been my best use of my time for the money. In other words, being the middleman is more profitable than being the end seller.

If you have seen the you tube channel "Chasing Cardboard" https://www.youtube.com/@CHASINGCARDBOARD/videos , you will see Ty has taken multiple approaches to handling the sales of purchased collections. As he has evolved, you can see that he is now more likely to make a referral/help consign a collection than to rent a storge unit for a collection purchase.

So, while buying a collection is far more exciting, reviewing a collection and making a referral is much more profitable based on time spent/money earned.

[swarmee]

I would say no, that a card show is not the best plan for your time, cost, and effort.
Newspaper ads (pennysaver), Local Facebook Buy Sell Trade groups, garage sales, etc would likely have a better ROI on scouting out collections.

[gonefishin]

I'm imagining me as an attendee and walking through the show checking out the tables, etc. What will I see when I walk up to your space? What will you have to capture my attention? What will your marketing/advertising be that will make me want to talk to you?

Now let' say I do stop. I own a large vintage collection. What offers do you have or presentation will you give that would make me want to sell my collection to you? What do you offer that an auction house doesn't? What would compel me take the next steps in selling you my collection?

I'm guessing the majority of people that would stop and have a serious conversation would be someone that has a horde of over produced product from the mid-80s through the mid-90s they are tired of storing.

Vintage collectors, for the most part, don't reveal to people they don't know or trust items they have in their collection. For good reason, people are out there scamming and taking advantage every day.

Competing with auction houses when it comes to selling vintage would be tough. Even if they're not an auction house, there are many reputable dealers out there soliciting constantly for vintage product - Dean's is just one example.

Try it small scale at first. Set up a table at the local swap meet, have a yard sale with purchasing vice selling.

Analysis the cost, and include everything. Remember, if you're purchasing it resale, it adds on. If you're purchasing it to collect, just keep in mind.

Just some random thoughts. Keep us posted on your decision and plans.

[Mike D.]

If you can funnel all the folks walking around with briefcases of graded cards at shows trying to sell them to dealers your way, maybe the other dealers will pay your table fee for you.

[BobC]

Bring a briefcase full of cash to the show, and have it sitting out in the open where people can see it, sitting next to a big sign saying you're looking to buy collections (but not right out on the front table where some people also may be thinking about grabbing it and running). That cash will attract potential people looking to sell.

Unfortunately, you'll probably be lucky to even get 1 out of every 20 people coming to talk to you about it that actually have anything worthwhile. You'll also probably want to be sure you only go to shows in states that allow concealed carry so you can protect yourself, and be sure you have a proper license to do so, as well as friends to accompany and back you up, and protect you. That should hopefully work, until the police find out you have such cash, and then figure out a way to pull you over after you leave the show for supposedly changing lanes without signaling, or not using a turn signal at an intersection, and they stop you and end up doing an illegal search and taking your cash as an asset forfeiture claim. if you're lucky, they won't take your car and impound it as well, but don't hold your breath.

[Belfast1933]

Ummm - thanks?

(I had a feeling this question might generate some interesting replies - Net54 never disappoints)

[G1911]

Usually it takes longer to get weird.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by raulus

You can always try it out and see how it goes.

There's an old military quote that "no plan survives contact with the enemy."

Rather than spend too much time engaged in excessive omphaloskepsis and theorizing on the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, I'd be inclined to give a few things a try, and see if they stick. If it's not working, then you can always adjust and/or abandon your approach. Another part of the fun here is that it's likely to be very lumpy. You might land a big collection at one show, and then nothing for the next 3.

The economist/business part of me does think that you'll be better off if you can somehow differentiate yourself from the "other guys". Obviously there's a lot of competition out there in this space buying up collections. Your differentiation might just be geographic. Or you might be willing to travel further than others are willing to go. The table at a show approach could theoretically be a differentiating factor, especially if you're at shows where the "other guys" aren't showing up.

It does strike me that you'll need some way to find:

1) People with collections
2) Who are ready to sell, and sell now
3) Who are willing to sell at wholesale prices

I'll go out on a limb and guess that for the most part, the people who fall into this category are probably either heirs, people who haven't collected for a while, or old guys who are just ready to be done (or need the money fast), and willing to sacrifice on price in order to get it done fast.

The only question in my mind is whether those people are the kinds of people who go to shows, or whether you need some other approach to reach them. I see lots of those "other guys" advertising on hobby sites online and in trade magazines, so that's another alternative, although it might be difficult to stand out in that crowd.

+1, you'll swim much better by jumping into the pool than theorizing, the barrier to entry is super low to test your hypothesis. You'll gain experience and meet nice people if nothing else.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

Ummm - thanks?

(I had a feeling this question might generate some interesting replies - Net54 never disappoints)

You don't think putting out a bunch of cash will bring people to your table looking to sell stuff? If not, you likely don't understand the greed and desire of many people. It will also likely create a slight (actually more likely a big) bit of buzz at the show as people walking around start telling and questioning others if they saw the one dealer/seller with the briefcase full of cash. It WILL attract people to come see you, but it is also probably not a great idea for everyone for several of the negative reasons I also mentioned, for those that can't handle the negative stuff.

You might think I'm being some kind of a jerk, especially after your 'Umm - thanks?" comment/question. But I'm being fully serious if you want to get attention for buying stuff at a card show. Honestly tell me what other suggestion(s) by anyone else in this thread will likely get you more actual attention for what you want, faster and quicker than what I've suggested. Everything I stated is 100% logical, makes perfect sense, and/or is true. If you don't want some completely honest advice, don't go asking for it.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BobC

You don't think putting out a bunch of cash will bring people to your table looking to sell stuff? If not, you likely don't understand the greed and desire of many people. It will also likely create a slight (actually more likely a big) bit of buzz at the show as people walking around start telling and questioning others if they saw the one dealer/seller with the briefcase full of cash. It WILL attract people to come see you, but it is also probably not a great idea for everyone for several of the negative reasons I also mentioned, that can't handle it.

You might think I'm being some kind of a jerk, especially after your 'Umm - thanks?" comment/question. But I'm being fully serious if you want to get attention for buying stuff at a card show. Honestly tell me what other suggestion(s) by anyone else in this thread will likely get you more actual attention for what you want, faster and quicker than what I've suggested. Everything I stated is 100% logical, makes perfect sense, and/or is true. If you don't want some completely honest advice, don't go asking for it.

Personally Bob, I love your plan and it would be an instant separation from the other guys. I'd use passable fake cash and a hired "security guard " for presentation.

How would you present to make an heir or widow with a pre war collection comfortable enough to approach your table?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Personally Bob, I love your plan and it would be an instant separation from the other guys. I'd use passable fake cash and a hired "security guard " for presentation.

How would you present to make an heir or widow with a pre war collection comfortable enough to approach your table?

The fake cash might be a good idea, just don't get anyone claiming it could be counterfeit, as then you could have a whole other set of issues. And actually, isn't what I described basically taking a page right out of the Mr. Mint bible of how to do business? I remember when he used to specifically get the very first table inside the entrance doors at a card show so he had the first crack at anyone walking in with stuff to sell. He would actually offer to pay in cash, and if memory serves, made actual handwritten offers he gave to people of what he would pay them for their stuff when they did stop to show him what they may have. And I'm guessing he likely got some additional leads he would follow up on from people that maybe didn't bring all their stuff with them. There is the old saying, "Money talks....and bull$hit walks!", which is so very true.

As for widows and others, chances are they aren't coming to card shows themselves, maybe some younger relatives or friends looking out for them or otherwise trying to help. I'd suggest having a stack of business cards to hand out to people so there may be that follow-up activity after the show and/or away from it. Think about all the pictures you ever saw of Al (Mr. Mint) Rosen, more often than not it showed him with a huge smile, flashing tons of cash, or tons of great cards. The card flashes were for potential buyers. The cash flashes were for potential sellers. That way he always covered both sides of the aisle.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...t=0&ajaxserp=0

Rosen was to my understanding very good at using this technique, until I heard about him doing his usual and paying up to get the front table at the doors at the Cleveland National held in the IX Center one year. My understanding was he went ape$hit when he found out that unlike all the other Nationals he'd been at, no one told him there were two separate entrances to the IX Center on opposite sides of the convention floor. He apparently didn't like paying to only get a first crack at maybe half the people walking into the show. I also thought I heard/read somewhere he never bothered to do another National show after that, at least not ever in Cleveland. I've always found that hard to believe those stories/rumors I had heard that he really didn't know there were two separate entrances. But stranger things have happened in the world, right?

[Eric72]

I met Rosen once at show where we were both set up. From this one meeting, I formed on opinion of the man that persists to this day:

The world was a stage to him, he thought himself the principal actor, and the stacks of cash were very effective props. Whether one found his methods distasteful (I did) or brilliant, one thing was readily apparent.

He got results.

I'm not saying you should mirror what Rosen did. Most people couldn't pull it off. However, don't dismiss it out of hand.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I met Rosen once at show where we were both set up. From this one meeting, I formed on opinion of the man that persists to this day:

The world was a stage to him, he thought himself the principal actor, and the stacks of cash were very effective props. Whether one found his methods distasteful (I did) or brilliant, one thing was readily apparent.

He got results.

I'm not saying you should mirror what Rosen did. Most people couldn't pull it off. However, don't dismiss it out of hand.

All I was saying Eric. And of all the suggestions people were giving, flashing cash will likely get you the quickest and most attention possible. Think about all the people who go to the shows who want to operate under the table, they start thinking they're getting untraceable, untaxable cash, and THEY....ARE....IN!

And if you do it at a show that isn't as big as the National, you'll definitely get people's attention and become the talk of a smaller show. There's a reason why people like Alan Rosen and Don West were successful. Also why there are all those Shop-At-Home like channels still out there. They wouldn't be there if they weren't selling things to people and making tons of money. Of course, nowadays, it seems it has pushed over even more into the podcasts and other online people/sites who use whatever means they can think of to lure people in, and then hook them with whatever crap they're selling. For example, it is stated fact Alex Jones didn't make all his money from his podcasts, he made most of it from the supplements he was selling to people coming to listen to his podcasts. Like you said about Rosen being an actor, but just a different kind of stage/show to bring all the gullible people in.

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by BobC

You don't think putting out a bunch of cash will bring people to your table looking to sell stuff? If not, you likely don't understand the greed and desire of many people. It will also likely create a slight (actually more likely a big) bit of buzz at the show as people walking around start telling and questioning others if they saw the one dealer/seller with the briefcase full of cash. It WILL attract people to come see you, but it is also probably not a great idea for everyone for several of the negative reasons I also mentioned, for those that can't handle the negative stuff.

You might think I'm being some kind of a jerk, especially after your 'Umm - thanks?" comment/question. But I'm being fully serious if you want to get attention for buying stuff at a card show. Honestly tell me what other suggestion(s) by anyone else in this thread will likely get you more actual attention for what you want, faster and quicker than what I've suggested. Everything I stated is 100% logical, makes perfect sense, and/or is true. If you don't want some completely honest advice, don't go asking for it.

Sorry Bob! I thought your suggestions were tongue in cheek… now I get it! Set up a fake briefcase of $$ and a faux security guard.

I read your post too quickly - it actually sounds pretty funny (and could be effective, especially if I did this multiple times AND landed a few bigger deals this way to legitimize the gag set up.

I’ll have to think about whether I am up for that… but it is a clever idea. Again, sorry… I thought you were goofing with me. Apologies!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

Sorry Bob! I thought your suggestions were tongue in cheek… now I get it! Set up a fake briefcase of $$ and a faux security guard.

I read your post too quickly - it actually sounds pretty funny (and could be effective, especially if I did this multiple times AND landed a few bigger deals this way to legitimize the gag set up.

I’ll have to think about whether I am up for that… but it is a clever idea. Again, sorry… I thought you were goofing with me. Apologies!

Jeff,

No problem, but I was being very serious. and also serious about the things to be careful about if you do use real money. There are always stories of theft in the hobby, and if you are hauling around a lot of actual cash, you do need to be VERY CAREFUL as well.

But people seeing a lot of cash gets them excited. There is no replacement for greed and the desire of many people who think they can get their hands on some. And again, you'll be lucky to get a lot of legit items/collections you may be offered for sale as many people will try to get their hands on your cash, all the while thinking their stuff is worth way more than it actually is. So, in addition to being extremely patient and waiting for those actual good items/collections being offered, you also have to be an extremely good judge of a very diverse amount of stuff you'll likely be shown so as to be able to recognize the actual good items/collections you'll end up looking at, and you'll also have to be very dedicated to follow a strict regimen to properly assess and appraise those items/collections as accurately and conservatively as possible. If you honestly don't know the true value of many items/collections you're being shown, you may want to think twice about even starting to do something like this. Always remember the old adage, you actually make your money when you buy items, not when you sell them!

[raulus]

If you’re going with stacks of cash, then I’d pair it with this suit.

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by BobC

Jeff,

No problem, but I was being very serious. and also serious about the things to be careful about if you do use real money. There are always stories of theft in the hobby, and if you are hauling around a lot of actual cash, you do need to be VERY CAREFUL as well.

But people seeing a lot of cash gets them excited. There is no replacement for greed and the desire of many people who think they can get their hands on some. And again, you'll be lucky to get a lot of legit items/collections you may be offered for sale as many people will try to get their hands on your cash, all the while thinking their stuff is worth way more than it actually is. So, in addition to being extremely patient and waiting for those actual good items/collections being offered, you also have to be an extremely good judge of a very diverse amount of stuff you'll likely be shown so as to be able to recognize the actual good items/collections you'll end up looking at, and you'll also have to be very dedicated to follow a strict regimen to properly assess and appraise those items/collections as accurately and conservatively as possible. If you honestly don't know the true value of many items/collections you're being shown, you may want to think twice about even starting to do something like this. Always remember the old adage, you actually make your money when you buy items, not when you sell them!

Good stuff, thx… though I don’t think that’s quite my style or comfort zone. (Though that money suit above is super sweet, no doubt!)

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

Good stuff, thx… though I don’t think that’s quite my style or comfort zone. (Though that money suit above is super sweet, no doubt!)

Good luck in whatever you end up deciding to do Jeff. But do keep that one adage I mentioned in your mind at all times. You make your money when you buy, not when you sell.

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by BobC

Good luck in whatever you end up deciding to do Jeff. But do keep that one adage I mentioned in your mind at all times. You make your money when you buy, not when you sell.

Yep, cliche’s become cliche because they are true!

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by BobC

All I was saying Eric. And of all the suggestions people were giving, flashing cash will likely get you the quickest and most attention possible. Think about all the people who go to the shows who want to operate under the table, they start thinking they're getting untraceable, untaxable cash, and THEY....ARE....IN!

And if you do it at a show that isn't as big as the National, you'll definitely get people's attention and become the talk of a smaller show. There's a reason why people like Alan Rosen and Don West were successful. Also why there are all those Shop-At-Home like channels still out there. They wouldn't be there if they weren't selling things to people and making tons of money. Of course, nowadays, it seems it has pushed over even more into the podcasts and other online people/sites who use whatever means they can think of to lure people in, and then hook them with whatever crap they're selling. For example, it is stated fact Alex Jones didn't make all his money from his podcasts, he made most of it from the supplements he was selling to people coming to listen to his podcasts. Like you said about Rosen being an actor, but just a different kind of stage/show to bring all the gullible people in.

Rosen had much more in his repertoire than just the open display of cash. I can only imagine what it would've looked like had social media (especially video) been ubiquitous during his heyday.

To be fair:

In small doses, his routine might be impressive and mesmerizing. Prolonged exposure, though...not so much.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Rosen had much more in his repertoire than just the open display of cash. I can only imagine what it would've looked like had social media (especially video) been ubiquitous during his heyday.

To be fair:

In small doses, his routine might be impressive and mesmerizing. Prolonged exposure, though...not so much.

...and maybe that's what made him so successful. He seemed more interested in a "closing a deal" than forging long-term friendships. At least that's what I took away from it. Granted it was a long time ago; this was one show back in the 90's.

Damn, if the man didn't stand out, though. He was certainly memorable.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Rosen had much more in his repertoire than just the open display of cash. I can only imagine what it would've looked like had social media (especially video) been ubiquitous during his heyday.

To be fair:

In small doses, his routine might be impressive and mesmerizing. Prolonged exposure, though...not so much.

Definitely agree. If he started out today and tried doing what he was doing back then, with all the online connections, social media, and FB and other such online groups, podcasts, and whatever out there, he'd overwhelm the sensibilities of most people in the hobby in a heartbeat. Nowadays, something happening clear on the other side of the world can become known across the globe in a matter of minutes. Wasn't like that back then, and so, sometimes people used/needed these more over the top methods to get their message out there, and the buzz started. Just like flashing lots of cash, while advertising you're looking to buy collections, at a local show will likely get a buzz quickly started among attendees as well. Continue doing it over, and over, and over, and it eventually becomes a bit passe' for sure.

But since mostly only the older collectors will really remember Rosen and his techniques, or maybe even ever heard of him and what he would do, enough time has probably passed since he was at the top of his game and some of his "tricks" if initiated by someone else today would likely be greeting a whole new generation of potential sellers, and thus have a greater likelihood of working and raising interest because they hadn't been seen by a lot of these people before that could now be potential sellers.

[ejstel]

At many shows there are also many local people looking to sell cards...not the briefcase guys - they are your competition ( maybe not competition but they are looking to sell Kevin Durant cards at the top price- for which you should not even want buy). You are looking to buy (legends) at 70% of book. Start w a small show, like 40-50 tabled. Pay the 50 to 100 for a table- bring a nice sign that reads- buying at 70% book - best deals get my money....and buy what you collect. Buying $300 on cards at 30% off or more covers the expense of your table.

...and who knows what will walk up to your table. You can also sell what you want to move at your table.

.what you should buy is a different convo depending if you are collecting or looking to make a profit/income.


....just my 2 cents

Ed

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by ejstel

At many shows there are also many local people looking to sell cards...not the briefcase guys - they are your competition ( maybe not competition but they are looking to sell Kevin Durant cards at the top price- for which you should not even want buy). You are looking to buy (legends) at 70% of book. Start w a small show, like 40-50 tabled. Pay the 50 to 100 for a table- bring a nice sign that reads- buying at 70% book - best deals get my money....and buy what you collect. Buying $300 on cards at 30% off or more covers the expense of your table.

...and who knows what will walk up to your table. You can also sell what you want to move at your table.

.what you should buy is a different convo depending if you are collecting or looking to make a profit/income.


....just my 2 cents

Ed

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Thanks Ed… this sounds more like my speed and style. I went to a local show yesterday and it was way more crowded than I expected. And as you say, you never know what might walk up and present itself.

(By the way, not that it matters much, but I came up with a name for my little card business. Very GROSS vintage baseball cards - with a last name like mine, you only have so many options! So I opt to lean into it!

Thx again, all, for the many ideas… I’ll report back soon to share my experiences.

Jeff Gross

[Exhibitman]

Sorry to pee in the Cheerios, but this situation reminds me of cold calls from stock brokers that I get all the time at the office and my response to it: if it was that easy why would you be calling me to buy 100 shares of stock?

Finds are finds because they are rare. You have to really luck out to find a horde of T206s, and they are much more likely to be found by someone who knows someone who is affiliated with an auctioneer or dealer, aka a warm referral.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...oldin-auction/

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...d-judge-cards/

What is being suggested here is a business model that is at least 20 years out of date. Rosen had a fit over the entry door to the IX Center but his act had been in decline for a long time before that. Everyone set up at a show is looking to buy and everyone has wads of cash. Adopting Rosen's shtick won't cut it. By the time someone walks into a show, they have already done their homework on where to sell cards. The cost of obtaining information has fallen and the ease with which it can be obtained has risen to such an extent that no proverbial widow or orphan is going to walk into a show and hand you a shoebox of 1952 Topps Mantles. It just doesn't happen. Most of the true collection buyers are mobile and advertise heavily online, because a search engine is the first stop for nearly everyone looking to sell off cards they found. I know several of these very successful dealers and they all have web sites, large eBay presences, and travel extensively to go to the cards. I also know a few whose M.O. is to hit every estate sale, miscellaneous auction and flea market. They grab whatever they can find opportunistically, and they do it consistently and pretty much full time. The rest of the collections go to auctioneers because they too have a heavy advertising presence and will travel with big money in hand.

What you are more likely to get as walk-ups at shows are modest groups of lesser cards that can be profitable provided you make a buy at the right price point, but that will not make you a fortune and will not cover the cost of a bare table. You also cannot pay 70% of market on 99% of stuff, unless your plan is to lose money and go broke. Sure, you can do it with a 1952 T Mantle but that is not the walk-in, for the reasons listed above.

You would be better off starting with Craig's List, flea market calendars and local estate sale listings than trying to wade into a room of competitors at a local card show. Try to intercept the opportunities before they get to the door of the show. If you want to use a show, don't buy a table and wait. Hit the parking lot and entrance areas instead before the collectors get in the door.

I am working on a column about this; should be up in a week or two.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Sorry to pee in the Cheerios, but this situation reminds me of cold calls from stock brokers that I get all the time at the office and my response to it: if it was that easy why would you be calling me to buy 100 shares of stock?

Finds are finds because they are rare. You have to really luck out to find a horde of T206s, and they are much more likely to be found by someone who knows someone who is affiliated with an auctioneer or dealer, aka a warm referral.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...oldin-auction/

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...d-judge-cards/

What is being suggested here is a business model that is at least 20 years out of date. Rosen had a fit over the entry door to the IX Center but his act had been in decline for a long time before that. Everyone set up at a show is looking to buy and everyone has wads of cash. Adopting Rosen's shtick won't cut it. By the time someone walks into a show, they have already done their homework on where to sell cards. The cost of obtaining information has fallen and the ease with which it can be obtained has risen to such an extent that no proverbial widow or orphan is going to walk into a show and hand you a shoebox of 1952 Topps Mantles. It just doesn't happen. Most of the true collection buyers are mobile and advertise heavily online, because a search engine is the first stop for nearly everyone looking to sell off cards they found. I know several of these very successful dealers and they all have web sites, large eBay presences, and travel extensively to go to the cards. I also know a few whose M.O. is to hit every estate sale, miscellaneous auction and flea market. They grab whatever they can find opportunistically, and they do it consistently and pretty much full time. The rest of the collections go to auctioneers because they too have a heavy advertising presence and will travel with big money in hand.

What you are more likely to get as walk-ups at shows are modest groups of lesser cards that can be profitable provided you make a buy at the right price point, but that will not make you a fortune and will not cover the cost of a bare table. You also cannot pay 70% of market on 99% of stuff, unless your plan is to lose money and go broke. Sure, you can do it with a 1952 T Mantle but that is not the walk-in, for the reasons listed above.

You would be better off starting with Craig's List, flea market calendars and local estate sale listings than trying to wade into a room of competitors at a local card show. Try to intercept the opportunities before they get to the door of the show. If you want to use a show, don't buy a table and wait. Hit the parking lot and entrance areas instead before the collectors get in the door.

I am working on a column about this; should be up in a week or two.

Many people, like myself, were posting in response to the OP's original question about doing something at a local card show, and if it would be worthwhile to possibly getting more activity in buying collections. My comment about showing a lot of cash was, as I clearly stated in post #13, "basically taking a PAGE right out of the Mr. Mint bible of how to do business". I never stated or intended for it to be an endorsement or suggestion for someone repeating everything Rosen once did, but that is what you seem to be implying. The Rosen stories that followed were merely to explain and discuss more of what Rosen was known for, and not necessarily in a complimentary way. Meanwhile, as you very clearly stated above, "What is being suggested here is a business model that is at least 20 years out of date." Please explain to me and everyone else how suggesting someone take a single page/idea out of a prior person's sales tactics is the same as adopting their entire business model? You appear to have once again focused on a single statement, and blown it up and twisted it to support your narrative and contrasting point.

Also, I understand the OP did ask a follow-up question about additional information and advice regarding further efforts to advance and enhance their ability to find and acquire collections. And you gave some great advice, especially in regards to long-term sustained buying efforts they could then employ. But again, that was not the OP's initial and main question. And though your response was pertinent, it also does not allow and give you the right to then summarily dismiss and/or demean what others had to say that actually was in regard to the OPs original, main question, which had to do with gaining attention from potential sellers at a local card show. Quite honestly, someone flashing cash at a local card show will create a buzz and talk, and people coming to check it out. That is exactly what the OP wanted, people coming to him. Doesn't matter if those coming by had knowledge of Rosen or not. Those that did know of Rosen would likely stop by anyway to see what the OP was all about, and if he was possibly trying to copy Rosen, and if so, out of curiosity look to see how close he was to what Rosen did. Meanwhile, those unaware of who Rosen was would come by because they heard of a guy offering potentially large amounts of cash for cards, and want to see how they could get their hands on some of it. I already warned the OP as well that he would likely have a very low percentage of potential sellers actually offering anything he would really want, but it would get his name out there and interest in what he was doing. That is also why I mentioned his being sure to have a stack of business cards to pass out as well. The chances of him then attending future shows, where some people now having heard of him may then show up with cards/collections to possibly sell after all, and specifically look for him to sell to, are likely greatly increased.

No one ever said the OP should adopt Rosen's entire shtick. Also, just because a sales technique may be old, it doesn't mean that it won't still work. The advertising industry has been employing the same basic techniques and tactics, as well as bringing some back after lapses, since advertising first became a thing. People really got tired of Rosen for his demeanor and attitude, not for his having handfuls of cash as a mere prop. I merely suggested the OP use one of Rosen's props to hopefully help find sellers, not his bombastic attitude. Your ability to misinterpret and twist what others say is truly astounding at times.

Your comments about maybe trying to catch sellers in the parking lot or just outside the shows make some sense as well, but think about it a little from the potential sellers standpoint. Some stranger you never met before approaches you in a parking lot and wants to see your valuable cards to supposedly buy them. I don't know about you, but the first thing that pops into my mind is, who is this a$$hole, and is this guy really just trying to see if he can get me alone and then rob me. Though the sidewalk or parking lot is still in a public place, it is a hell of a lot different than being inside a hall or location with a lot of people all around, and the dealers being known and registered with whoever is running the show. Huge difference, wouldn't you agree?

And you comment, "By the time someone walks into a show, they have already done their homework on where to sell cards." I can confirm is not 100% accurate. I remember a few years ago at the Strongsville Collectors Show, a friend of mine came up to me and asked if I could help out someone else he knew. Turns out his friend, who worked at a local card store, was helping out the REA reps in their booth at the show. And out of the clear blue sky, a couple had come up to them looking to see about selling some cards the husband had found buried in the pages of a book he inherited from a recently passed Uncle I believe. Thing was they were 8 OJ cards, and neither the REA people, nor the local guy helping them out, really knew what the heck they were, or even more importantly, what they might be worth. The cards were in great overall shape, and included 7 commons, and a Delahanty rookie! The couple didn't know what they were, and had brought them up to the show inside a Ziploc bag. They had no idea what they were doing and had heard from some friend of theirs who apparently had head of the Strongsville show, and who had suggested they come to the show to ask around to see what they might be worth and how best to go about maybe selling them. They were walking around and saw the REA signs and how they auctioned off stuff for people, so started talking to them. When I got to the REA booth and saw the REA rep just thumbing through and manhandling the OJ cards without any penny sleeves or other protective holders, I nearly threw up. I couldn't believe the d*ckhead from REA and the local card shop guy could both be that stupid, but then again, the local card sharp guy actually had asked our mutual friend if he knew anything about these OJ cards, and that is when he got me involved. The REA people wouldn't dare go to one of the other dealers at the show, probably for fear they would offer to buy the items from the people straight out. Heck, if I remember correctly, I think Dan McKee was set up only a couple tables away. Anyway, I talked to the couple and told them the REA guy should not be handling the cards so roughly, especially with his bare hands and no protection for the cards. I then admonished the REA rep for not knowing any better either, and finally got him to put the cards down and explained that if he had to handle them, to only pick them up on the sides/edges. I then talked with the couple, in front of the REA rep and the local card guy, and explained what the cards were and how valuable they could be. I further explained how condition could play a big factor, and the manhandling of the cards should not be allowed. I also advised them to maybe not just talk to REA, right in front of the REA rep, and to possibly speak with other AHs as well about consigning the cards. I mentioned how AHs normally try to charge potential consigners like them a seller's commission that could be upwards of 20%, and that based on the items they had and their condition, they could very easily get a discounted seller's commission, if charged any at all, from other AHs. I then excused myself and went to a close by dealer's table and bought a pack of penny sleeves, and quickly returned to put the 8 OJ cards in them so they would have at least some protection. Meanwhile, the local card guy had run off to find our mutual friend and brought him back to then drag me off on some made up excuse. After the mutual friend got me away, he explained I was screwing up the guy's commission and they, the local card guy and REA rep, didn't want me around. No comment on what I thought of the REA rep and local card guy, I was merely concerned about them taking advantage of unsuspecting couple for their own greed and gain. In deference to my friend, I stayed away, but did approach the couple as they eventually walked away from the REA booth, and proceeded to tell them everything about what the REA people were trying to pull. In my brief absence, the REA rep apparently finally got on the phone with someone back at their main office who actually knew about OJ cards. The couple thanked me very much, and said they did decide to leave the cards with REA for consignment after all, after getting a reduced 5% only seller's commission. So I wished the couple luck and said goodbye. I kept an eye out and saw the cards finally ended up in one of REA's auctions about maybe 3-4 months later. REA had had them graded by SGC, and if memory serves, the 7 commons all got decent mid-range grades, like 4-5s, and maybe even a 6, don't remember exactly. Surprisingly to me though, the Delahanty only got something like a 1 or 2. I remembered the 8 cards all being of similar condition and with great image clarity, so not sure why or how just that Delahanty ended up being downgraded so much. Still, the group ended up selling for around $10K total if I remember correctly. So, I was very pleased to discover I saved the extremely nice, and completely unknowing couple, about $1,500.

And as far as being over the top, wonderful links and stories you posted to, but I don't think the OP was necessarily expecting any collection finds like those to suddenly appear in front of him. Instead, they went to two big-time, well-known, operators in the hobby who do extensive advertising and such to get their names out there. Not really so unlike what Rosen was doing years before after all. I mean, doesn't Goldin have some kind of rap song about him out there now, and didn't he do things like open thousands of dollars worth of packs with Drake online for publicity, and other crap like that? It is all just hype and advertising, so what is really the difference between what he does and what Rosen did? Oh, and doesn't Goldin have his own Netflix show coming out in the not too distant future also? I sincerely hope that if they are going to create a "true" reality show about Goldin, that they actually go back and show the "complete" "true" reality. There's an old saying that a leopard doesn't easily change its spots. So true, so true!

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

And Adam, why does it seem like a lot of your posts now just end up being advertisements for your own blog? I always thought the main idea/purpose of Net54 was to provide for those in the hobby, especially and mainly collectors, to have a place where they could come to freely share information among themselves regarding the hobby, their collections, and collecting activities and goals. I assume that by starting your own blog, one of your intentions is to eventually be able to generate some revenue from it? If so, that seems to me to be a bit contrary to the main idea behind the Net54 forum of freely sharing info among ourselves. I am in no way, shape, or form trying to put anyone down or dismiss anyone's ideas or goals. Just making some simple observations based on what little I do know. I think it is sometimes very important to possibly understand the context behind where people often come from in their comments and statements, and thus allow others to maybe better understand the real "true" reasons they may be saying or acting they do.

And don't worry about responding. I know how you like to invoke the TLDR commentary on occasion.

[Exhibitman]

Bob, I am speaking from experience taking tables at card shows and attending hundreds of them as a patron, and even running a few of them. With that many dealers in the room, it is a seller's market unless you are trying to move junk. I set up at the first large show in LA in years this past summer and even though the place was mobbed, the walk-ins were in line with what I stated: mostly crap, with a smattering of decent items in there.

I wasn't aiming at your prior posts; several other members posted similar misgivings and comments regarding the best routes to actually buying stuff besides sitting at a show.

With regard to the walk-ins' knowledge level, I stand by my view. The occasional clueless walk-in happens but is a rarity, especially as compared to the past.

My friends who actually do this for a living set up at shows but do far more buying through web presence, referrals and leg work than via walk-ups. it just isn't an efficient paradigm.

As for outside the show buys, maybe you have not waited in line to get into a show, but it is not unusual to see someone working the line before a show opens. If someone is there to sell, getting that first shot is a viable strategy. I got one of the best deals of my life doing that in the 1990s.

Am i saying that the OP shouldn't try it? Of course not. How he spends his time is his choice.

As for content of my post, I mentioned my blog in passing (and it is free, so no monetizing there; I like to pontificate there rather than here because I can cuss freely and editorialize as snarky as I want). Most of the post was devoted to offering some concrete examples and suggestions for what it takes in this tech-savvy age to effectively promote a card business, I even went to the trouble of posting links to articles about finds that illustrate how major hobby-fresh strikes go to those with strong online presences and networks of referrals, not people who sit at a local show.

One last point: while you may pat yourself on the back for telling the walk-in to "maybe not just talk to REA, right in front of the REA rep", if you'd done that to me at a show I would have asked the promoter to throw you out. It is called "intentional interference with prospective advantage" and it is actually grounds for a lawsuit. People who set up at shows pay substantial sums to transact and walking up and suggesting that people dealing with them go elsewhere is tortious interference and bad card show etiquette, IMO. How would you feel if you were set up and some know it all came over and started telling your customers to go elsewhere? Not cool. As Guido the Killer Pimp said:

[isiahfan]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

One last point: while you may pat yourself on the back for telling the walk-in to "maybe not just talk to REA, right in front of the REA rep", if you'd done that to me at a show I would have asked the promoter to throw you out. It is called "intentional interference with prospective advantage" and it is actually grounds for a lawsuit. People who set up at shows pay substantial sums to transact and walking up and suggesting that people dealing with them go elsewhere is tortious interference and bad card show etiquette, IMO. How would you feel if you were set up and some know it all came over and started telling your customers to go elsewhere? Not cool. As Guido the Killer Pimp said:

Interesting last take as you seem to be a proponent of random attendees of shows to hitting up customers before they get in??....isn't that also "intentional interference with prospective advantage" seeing that the dealers paying for their tables paid for that right?...if not technically I would still call that poor form and I don't think many show runners or dealers would appreciate that either. I as well have run shows...and I wouldn't stand for that either.

[raulus]

Slightly different movie quote...

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by raulus

Slightly different movie quote...

Mattresses indeed. BobC writing textbooks and Adam quoting Guido the Killer Pimp. We know for justice we must go to Don Corleone.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by isiahfan

Interesting last take as you seem to be a proponent of random attendees of shows to hitting up customers before they get in??....isn't that also "intentional interference with prospective advantage" seeing that the dealers paying for their tables paid for that right?...if not technically I would still call that poor form and I don't think many show runners or dealers would appreciate that either. I as well have run shows...and I wouldn't stand for that either.

Thank you Isiahfan. I'm going to address and respond to the bulk of Exhibitman's other false statements, attacks, and accusations as well. You beat me to this particular point in showing the hypocrisy in his statements. In my experience, typical type of attorney response to find and only focus on a specific point they can then blow up and twist to their supposed advantage to then try to make an exaggerated attack out of. And equally hilarious how he was somehow able to inject an implied threat of a lawsuit in there as well. Now there's a surprise coming from an attorney, a threat to sue someone!!! You can't make this stuff up.

And I don't know about you, but I find the use by some of posting photos/images, like a scene out of Risky Business, to act as some kind of smart-ass, sarcastic commentary about something or someone else to be about as infantile and textbook passive-aggressive activity as can be.

[BobC]

Adam,

I do not take BS from ANYONE!!!!!


"Bob, I am speaking from experience taking tables at card shows and attending hundreds of them as a patron, and even running a few of them. With that many dealers in the room, it is a seller's market unless you are trying to move junk. I set up at the first large show in LA in years this past summer and even though the place was mobbed, the walk-ins were in line with what I stated: mostly crap, with a smattering of decent items in there."

So what? No one ever said you didn't have experience in selling and doing shows. Or is this merely your idea of trying to establish that you may have some kind or type of unique and special knowledge/experience that makes your opinion and thoughts soooooooo much better than anyone else's, and thereby imply/impose your superiority over them and everyone else?


"I wasn't aiming at your prior posts; several other members posted similar misgivings and comments regarding the best routes to actually buying stuff besides sitting at a show."

Then that wasn't you making dismissive and derogatory comments about Alan Rosen and the use of cash as a possible prop? I was the one that mentioned it in earlier posts, and how it was simply taking a "page" out of Rosen's old book of tricks. So tell me again how just this one example doesn't prove your comment you weren't aiming at any of my prior posts isn't a lie then?!?!? You even falsely implied I may have somehow been advising the OP to adopt Rosen's entire "shtick", as you called it. But I never did that, did I? I merely suggested he try flashing some cash as a prop, which by the way, other members also commented on as not being a bad idea at all either. Funny, and convenient isn't it, how you seem to have left that part out when you made your statement above about other members posting misgivings about what I had said. Makes it seem to anyone just reading your most recent post now, and who maybe didn't go back and read all the prior posts, that people responding only agreed with you, thus further validating to them how you are the only one that is right. And by the way, I did come back in a later post to clarify for those that did misinterpret, or never comprehended what I initially said, that no one was suggesting the OP adopt and act like Rosen with his over-the-top, bombastic attitude. Yet you, as usual, ignore and fail to acknowledge that, and just continue posting your negative and derogatory comments like they are all that is true. Your reading comprehension and selective memory is truly astounding! And it also seems to be coming clearer and clearer that some people may count on others not bothering to go back and completely read all posts in a thread to get around admitting to things they said or implied earlier. In other words, they just keep saying they are right, and everyone else is wrong, and eventually expect that people will go away with that thinking.


"With regard to the walk-ins' knowledge level, I stand by my view. The occasional clueless walk-in happens but is a rarity, especially as compared to the past."

Again, no one disagreed with you In fact, did I not point out to the OP that his chances of finding anyone coming into a show with anything good he'd want to buy would be nominal, at best? I used maybe 1 out of 20, if he were lucky, to possibly describe what his results could be like. Would you have been happier had I said only 1 out of 100, or maybe 1 out of 1,000? Meanwhile, the exact statement you made which prompted me to share my REA story was as follows, from an earlier post you directed back at me. "By the time someone walks into a show, they have already done their homework on where to sell cards." I did not see any wiggle room in that statement there, like saying "most" or 'many" people, so the only correct interpretation of what you emphatically said thar I could come up with is that apparently "everyone" walking in already knows what they are doing. I merely shared my story to show that your statement did have exceptions, and is not emphatically true. And it doesn't matter if such occurrences are rare or not, that doesn't invalidate anything I said. I'd already been on record as saying such situations would likely be rare. Now adding onto that above quote that there actually still may be an occasional unknowing selling walking into a show somewhere, does not automatically excuse you from the negative comments you saw fit to throw out earlier. Again, seems like you selectively picking points and comments to support just your thinking and opinions, and summarily discard those of others that don't help or support you.


"My friends who actually do this for a living set up at shows but do far more buying through web presence, referrals and leg work than via walk-ups. it just isn't an efficient paradigm."

Great, don't disagree at all. But once again, the OP's original question was about setting up at shows, and maybe how best to get attention and potential sellers to show him their collections he may then have a chance to buy. I, and no one else, ever demeaned or put down any of your ideas. I even said in an earlier post that they were good ideas and made sense for the OP to help develop a better long-term plan and technique in his attempts at acquiring collections. So why do you continue to put down and dismiss others ideas that are just as true and relevant to the OPs original main question? There can be many good and relevant ideas for the OP to look at and think about. Why do you take it upon yourself to try and make it seem like yours are the only opinions/ideas that truly matter?


"As for outside the show buys, maybe you have not waited in line to get into a show, but it is not unusual to see someone working the line before a show opens. If someone is there to sell, getting that first shot is a viable strategy. I got one of the best deals of my life doing that in the 1990s."

Another great example of your selective memory. I never said anything about people in lines outside the show. Isiahfan in an earlier post kind of already covered the potential conflict and hypocrisy with that above statement. And as for the attack on me and implied potential lawsuit I could face, I'll deal more specifically with that in a little bit. Why no mention of the fact that you also said - "Hit the PARKING LOT and entrance areas instead before the collectors get in the door." Soooo convenient how you forgot about suggesting the parking lot for the OP to go after collectors and potential sellers. Like I honestly said, someone approaching me in a parking lot would have all my alarms going off. especially when I'm likely carrying valuable cards, along with a lot of cash to spend at the show. Someone doing that to me, I wouldn't waste a second going to the show promoter, I'd go straight to the property/business owner the show venue was in, and/or maybe just contact the local police directly.


"Am i saying that the OP shouldn't try it? Of course not. How he spends his time is his choice."

Then why all your BS and having to put down other people's ideas and thoughts? You did start your first post in this thread with your "peeing in someone's Cheerios" comment, did you not? But of course, since you started that very first statement with a "Sorry", that absolves you from anything else you say afterwards, right? Why not just state your ideas for a long-term plan for the OP, which was in line with his secondary question he started the thread with? Why couldn't you just post your opinions and ideas without also having to belittle others and trying to show/demonstrate how you think you know so much more than them? And exactly what in that statement of yours are you saying you didn't tell the OP not to try? Interesting how you sometimes seem to purposely not be specific in what you say. Seen that tactic and technique used for decades. Give no specifics so if someone does respond about it and assumes what they think you meant, you can deny and say that wasn't what you said or what you were really talking about. And before you give me some more crap that that is exactly what I do, I also respond and always try to fully explain what I said and meant so as to remove any misunderstanding or miscomprehension on the part of the reader. But then when they try throwing their TLDP crap back at me, it just helps show how they don't really care what is being said after all, and just want to keep spewing their "I'm right, and you're wrong!" mantra at me and others. When I'm wrong about something, I also admit to it. There are many people on this forum that I've found will never admit when they are wrong or could have been mistaken in their opinion or thinking.


"As for content of my post, I mentioned my blog in passing (and it is free, so no monetizing there; I like to pontificate there rather than here because I can cuss freely and editorialize as snarky as I want). Most of the post was devoted to offering some concrete examples and suggestions for what it takes in this tech-savvy age to effectively promote a card business, I even went to the trouble of posting links to articles about finds that illustrate how major hobby-fresh strikes go to those with strong online presences and networks of referrals, not people who sit at a local show."

You've been doing it quite a bit more frequently lately. I'm not going to waste the time going back and quoting some of your recent posts where instead of actually posting any comments, you simply mention working on a blog about it that will be up in a few weeks or so. So why not also post your thoughts in the thread then as well? I don't really have any problem with what you are doing, or even that you want to do it, but it does come across as you advertising for yourself. Which again, is fine. What I do dislike though is you using me as someone to help you advertise for your blog. You may not have quoted anyone in your earlier post, but you clearly included me as one of the references/comments you were ranting about when you talked about the Rosen stuff, which I alone had originally brought up and mentioned. As for the blog site being free to people that are going to it, great, but that wasn't my point. My understanding is that there are literally millions and millions of people that post stuff online that you and I can access for free. But then I also hear how they can be making tons of money from advertisers and others sponsoring their sites. Sometimes ridiculously huge amounts in fact if they have enough subscribers/traffic. I was merely inquiring if that is maybe your ultimate goal. I always feel it is important to try and be as upfront and honest with people as possible. And as for the articles you posted, those are fine, but the chances of the OP ever coming across a find like those is probably none and none. Really relevant examples then. And even if the OP ever did get that lucky to come across such a collection, is he really going to be able to ever afford to buy it? The OP was not coming across as some multi-millionaire with tons of money to blow on cards, so I was merely trying to respond to him in what I thought was a more relevant manner. Also thought it comical how you went on about Rosen and put down his tactics, but then use/reference someone like Goldin who is the main party in one of those linked articles you posted. Are differences between those two really that great? If memory serves, Goldin was a Don West/Shop At Home fixture for while, right? Not over the top at all, huh? And I also never heard of Rosen being arrested for anything. Interesting how you show Goldin as possibly a good role model, but chastise Rosen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-hqbuM6y3I


"One last point: while you may pat yourself on the back for telling the walk-in to "maybe not just talk to REA, right in front of the REA rep", if you'd done that to me at a show I would have asked the promoter to throw you out. It is called "intentional interference with prospective advantage" and it is actually grounds for a lawsuit. People who set up at shows pay substantial sums to transact and walking up and suggesting that people dealing with them go elsewhere is tortious interference and bad card show etiquette, IMO. How would you feel if you were set up and some know it all came over and started telling your customers to go elsewhere? Not cool. As Guido the Killer Pimp said:"

Finally, the one part of your commentary I was especially waiting to respond to. You can take your sick, demeaning, typical attorney BS commentary and threats and shove them!!! To everyone on the forum, here is a perfect example of how some attorneys think and operate, to try and bully others and impose their will and self-assumed superiority over everyone else.

First of all, did you really pay attention to everything I said in that story? Because if you did, I don't think you'd be spewing all the crap you have been. I thought I was pretty clear in the story that I did not just walk up and tell the couple with the OJ cards to not do business with REA. I was INVITED by the local card shop guy working as one of the REA reps, through a mutual friend, to come over and help them AND the couple to figure out what they may have, and what it may be worth. I was not working for REA or the couple, REA offered me no deal, commission or payment, and neither was I in the employ of the couple. In fact, after seeing the couple didn't even have the OJs in penny sleeves, I went and spent my own money to buy a pack of penny sleeves and at least put the OJs in them so the REA bozos didn't keep manhandling the raw cards and possibly damaging them. You talk about a "prospective advantage" that REA supposedly had, but the fact that they would have two bozos manning a booth at a major, strictly vintage/pre-war card show, who had no real clue as to what OJ cards were and would not even know how to properly handle raw cards, demonstrated to me that REA clearly threw any possible advantage they may have had right out the door. So Counselor, when I'm standing in front of everybody and the couple asks me for my opinion and I what I think, after having been invited by the REA people to help and answer such questions, I don't believe that can in any way be construed as "intentional interference" either, since I was specifically asked what I thought by the couple. Or Counselor, would you have rather I lied to the couple's face and told them to immediately sign with REA. Or maybe I should have done what I'm wondering if someone like yourself may have been inclined to do, excuse myself from the couple for a second to then take the REA rep aside, and negotiate my cut of what they were going to make off the couple by advising them to immediately consign with REA at a full seller's commission? Because totally contrary to your earlier statement that everyone walking into a card show with cards apparently already knows how best to sell them, this couple obviously did not. I was merely an innocent third-party asked to help, which I did. And along comes you, implying I should be subject to a lawsuit for doing exactly what I was asked to by the parties involved. I also did not do so behind the backs of the REA guys, I had the balls to speak the honest truth in front of them. Too bad you never really hear of many attorneys ever doing that, speaking the truth clearly and with no confusion in front of others, huh?

And your further BS story about how if I had done that to you at a show, you'd have had me removed by the promoter, is a made-up crock of $hit!. First off, at the time, I had known the show's promoter, and his wife, for over 20 years. As soon as I had told him the complete, true story and what actually happened, want to bet who he would have sided with? And had you been at a show, would you really have been that stupid that you would have had to ask someone like me to come over and help you with a couple like that? (But with the way you've been going on with your comments, you're beginning to make me wonder!) And assuming you are not that ignorant, why do you still find it necessary then to make up such a BS story that would never have actually happened? Unless it was just a way for you to spew more of your crap at me and try to project to everyone on the forum how brilliant and smart you are, and how dare anyone else ever say or imply anything differently? But the threatened lawsuit liability allegation is your lowest point of all. I would have loved to have run into you in the above situation, and then had you try to sue me after the fact for supposedly screwing you over. I would have loved to be able to sit in front of a jury and tell them how YOU had been the one to invite me over to assist you and the couple in what best to do, and then how you got mad because I wasn't going to be part of your attempt to take as much advantage of the couple as you could. I can only imagine how little sympathy you'd get from the jury after I spoke. And the follow-up lawsuit against you for filing your frivolous suit against me, along with defamation to my character and whatever else I came up with, would be even sweeter!

And to be fully honest and open, before I saw your last garbage filled response, I had already PM'd the thread's OP and apologized for having somewhat taken over his thread. I went into a lot of detail and explained more fully how I don't take this kind of BS from anyone. I also specifically mentioned how you actually are a good guy, and that your ideas are not bad at all and well worth looking into and that he should think of trying and implementing them as well. I also mentioned how I thought he was likely more someone like me, without a lot of excess cash to just go off buying things left and right, and to maybe try some of the card show and other less involved ideas presented as well, first, to see if he even really likes doing it. At the end, I wished him luck and said the most important thing he should do despite anything else, is to make sure he enjoys it and has fun. Why bother doing it otherwise, right? Ever since I later saw your comeback, I've been rethinking and regretting some of what I said to him in that PM!

In summation, I helped a couple to make a decision on what to do. I also told them REA was a great AH to consign with, despite the two idiots they had manning their booth that day. They didn't cheat or take advantage of REA, and I merely helped got a fair and equitable deal for BOTH parties, that REA should have offered the couple from the start. I got, and expected, absolutely nothing out of it at all. Yet to you, I am somehow the bad guy, and you have the audacity to insult me and put me down with your sarcastic remark about patting myself on the back for doing exactly what I was asked by the parties involved. How dare you! I acted as a simple, honest, and compassionate human being, and for that, I apologize to no one.....especially not the likes of you! Your ill-conceived and inaccurate commentaries on my actions and involvement in the REA story shows me, and everyone else on the forum, exactly how you are and think, and where your true colors are when it comes to being a decent human and working with and dealing with other innocent and unknowing people in the hobby. If I have the choice of being someone like I was at that show, or being like you appear to be, I'll easily take being nothing like you, and patting myself on the back for that decision every single day for the rest of my life!!!

[Belfast1933]

As the OP, thanks for the ideas… am sifting through them all to decide what’s right for me.

To be honest, even the disagreements here generate useful ideas, counterpoints, etc. I’m sorry to have been at the front end of such heated back and forth but I do thank you both for also weighing in.

Since I started this all, I think I’ll try and end it too… with a “thanks” and a promise to start another thread later after I give it a go at a couple of smaller local shows.

I’ll ask Leon how (if?) I can shut this one down now - I got plenty of good ideas so I think this thread served its purpose for me!

See you at the card show (I’ll be the one wearing that sweet money suit suggested above - boss!!)

Jeff “Belfast1933” Gross

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

As the OP, thanks for the ideas… am sifting through them all to decide what’s right for me.

To be honest, even the disagreements here generate useful ideas, counterpoints, etc. I’m sorry to have been at the front end of such heated back and forth but I do thank you both for also weighing in.

Since I started this all, I think I’ll try and end it too… with a “thanks” and a promise to start another thread later after I give it a go at a couple of smaller local shows.

I’ll ask Leon how (if?) I can shut this one down now - I got plenty of good ideas so I think this thread served its purpose for me!

See you at the card show (I’ll be the one wearing that sweet money suit suggested above - boss!!)

Jeff “Belfast1933” Gross

Yes but some of us like the amateur comedian and the guy with way too much time on his hands posts.

As for buying collections to sell the only important thing Bob already posted. You make your money buying not selling.

[Volod]

Originally Posted by BobC

... if you're lucky, they won't take your car and impound it as well, but don't hold your breath.

Good one, Bob.

[Exhibitman]

Bob:

As usual, TLDR.

Have a nice day.

[RCMcKenzie]

Shows are for socializing and networking. If I bought a table to sell at a show, it would be for fun.

If I were going to sell cards for a living, I would need an impressive website listing the card types I pay strong for.

I would scour eBay for card listings of the sets I know. I would look for things like "Lot of 74 1950 Bowman, mixed conditions." and that kind of stuff.

[babraham]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Bob:

As usual, TLDR.

Have a nice day.

I mean, that must have taken at least 25-30 minutes to type that up.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by babraham

I mean, that must have taken at least 25-30 minutes to type that up.

It actually took much longer than that, including various edits and breaks to make sure I properly, factually, and logically addressed all the points I did make. And I did so because I knew in the end, the other party would not be able to respond without making themself look even more in the wrong. I actually expected the non-response I got, typical modus operandi from such that will never admit their errors or faults. And trust me, your eyes would still be burning from the original response version I would have loved to have actually posted about the other party and their comments. In the end, the way someone responds just describes the kind of person one can be. They may have the balls to make sarcastic, rude, demeaning comments about someone/something else, and then when you confront them with facts and show how it seems much/everything they said was false and garbage, they just walk away and refuse to answer. I can (and have) clearly show how people like that are typically wrong, how they twist things to make it just their narrative that they talk about and push, aren't man enough to ever admit their stupid mistakes and misstatements, and at the end of the day are nothing more than bullies and cowards it seems. Just go back and read posts I make to any such people and you'll see I always strive to make sure they are as truthful, factual, and logical as possible. And this includes against some that are regarded as great, long-time, and well-loved experts/members on the forum. Just because someone is considered an expert in say some popular, well collected set, shouldn't automatically give them a pass to say whatever they want about anything else, with generally no accountability or pushback when it is possibly wrong or not completely factually correct or logical. The closed-mindedness and short-sightedness of many on this forum is truly disappointing at times.

And I can give real-time, real-life examples of exactly the kind of things I'm talking about. There are currently some threads/posts started/posted by a Will Jaimet on here that got immediate blowback and ridicule. They seem to finally be petering out, but a seemingly common point from many is how this person when asked many direct questions, consistently ignored and didn't answer them, seems to have made some other what were perceived as sarcastic and/or demeaning comments in response, and then apparently just walked away. That is pretty much exactly the same thing that just occurred in my case, but no one else apparently will speak up and also call out such people and wonder/question why the other party did what they did, but then refuses to actually answer questions or respond intelligently. There are many other occasions here on the forum where I've called out others for refusing to respond and answer my questions after responding to theirs, but again, no one else ever seems to want to publicly step up and also question why they refused to answer. But make it a newcomer that no one knows and probably has no other friends on the forum, and watch people pile on. I have had others privately PM me about their own interactions with some others on the forum, and give me their support, and to those people I again thank you and appreciate all you had to say and tell me. There shouldn't be such a double standard treatment tolerated on the forum though. Hopefully in the future more people will begin to have a like view as myself and start to speak out against such a double standard continuing. Otherwise, why is it if a Willjaimet refuses to answer a question, multiple people on the forum immediately begin to respond and say that must be proof he is guilty of what is being said/asked about him. Why isn't the exact same logic then applied to someone who I point out their errors and misstatements to, but then instead of replying and responding to my comments and questions just refuses to answer and says TLDR. It is the exact same thing folks, think about it!!!!!

And to hopefully shut down the trolls from even opening their mouths about how the Jaimet thing was because he was an alleged hobby fraud, so it is completely different than what I'm talking about, the logic, reasoning, and treatment of any situations should always be the same, just like when a TPG reviews and examines a card for grading, and not subject to different standards or interpretation based on what the original issue was, just like it shouldn't matter and make a difference in what card the TPG was given to grade. From what I've seen over the years, it seems/feels I'm about the only person on this forum who will somewhat consistently still call out the BS of not just newer posters/members, but will apply the same standards and thinking to more long-time members and those in their mutual-appreciation style like cliques here on the forum as well. There are a lot of great members and people here in this forum, and just like as in our general society as a whole, there are also a lot who are not!!!

[G1911]

This could have so easily been a rational, normal thread.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by G1911

This could have so easily been a rational, normal thread.

Embrace the irrational abnormality.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by raulus

Embrace the irrational abnormality.

Don't encourage him Nic. He's one of the problems I've ignored for a long time now.