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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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talking in generalities always strange, asians and jews have had enormous racisim as well as many other groups. Not sure why it matters to keep score as to has the most, if you face it its personal to you..you dont care about any group of people who face it 'more' overall..
Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-12-2023 at 06:59 PM. |
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If this bill's any race provision was simply reworded to exclude white races from the same protection as every other race, this bill would be a darling of the left. Which is the entire point of it, and the rage bait troll. |
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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Well, I think we did agree that the judge probably overstated the case on the reach of the text.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#107
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To bring this around to point, as Peter points out, the Florida law is written vaguely enough that there is no common understanding of what is allowed and what is not. And, when faced with such ambiguity, people will err on the side of caution because no one wants the grief of having their name in the papers as a "librul indoctrinator" because some gunny-ass parent with too much time on their hands got a burr under their saddle. So, what is an educator to do? Can they teach in current events that there are laws that disproportionately affect minorities? Can they teach about the discriminatory intent of poll taxes and Jim Crow Laws? Can they teach that many of our Founding Fathers owned slaves? Can they teach about the racism faced by Jackie Robinson and Roberto Clemente? No one knows. And when no one knows, anyone who decides to take a stand between an ambitious governor and riled up parents will stand alone. |
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It very, very explicitly requires schools to teach African American achievement and the racism experiences. It specifically requires them to teach slavery (167-173). It does not ban teaching about discriminatory poll taxes, Jim Crow laws, the ownership of slaves (which it very literally directly requires to be taught), or the racism faced by Jackie Robinson. At all. It does not ban books about Clemente and Jackie Robinson. It does not allow a "gunny-ass parent", whatever that means, to bring a case against a "librul indoctrinator" because they don't like something. It does not ban discussion of racism or anything under the sun, it only bans advocacy of racism against any race. Again, 51-83 are a good TL;DR if 496 is too many. Which section of the law banning specific practices is too vague? Which part do you disagree with and argue against? As I've said, I have concerns about this, but I am unable to see these arguments anywhere in the bill, they seem to only exist in political op-ed's that have clearly not read the text. |
#109
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I will, but it won't be tonight. I have a job interview in the morning and I need to get myself prepared and in the right frame of mind.
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#110
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Good luck! Hope you get it
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#111
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#112
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The ID argument is silly not to be able to get an ID, correct me if i am wrong but i thought that was needed to get a free covid shot and usually anyone with government assistance needs some type of an ID.... there is racism against asians getting into colleges right now, and there are racist minorities now as well, i do think the country is less racist in terms of opportunties then it was 30 years ago, but you would think in the media it isnt......Many liberals also voted for Desantis..... Desantis was blamed for all sorts of things during the pandemic and he has looked pretty good looking back...so anytime you see new criticism on him you take it with a grain of salt...heck all for the main newspapers endorsed Crist...yet it was a super run away election..in a state that desantis only won 4 years about by a very slim margin.. ..also a lot of minorities such as latin groups seemed to vote for desantis even though the media runs mostly negative presss on him. Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-12-2023 at 07:10 PM. |
#113
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IIRC, they said that, in itself, is racism and more profiling. https://youtu.be/DCytgANu010
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 Last edited by irv; 02-13-2023 at 05:43 AM. |
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Why do you assume the criticism is about whether or not you're intelligent enough to get an ID? That's not why people don't like voter ID requirements. Something like a driver's license costs money to acquire. A passport costs money to acquire. As you raise the bar for the kind of ID needed, you're raising the cost as well. There are people who can't pay for an ID. In the state of NY renewing your license costs $64.50.
It is true that most states offer some form of free identification, but not all forms of ID are accepted for all things, even when you think they would be. I can't take a domestic flight with my current NY state issued license. I have to show my passport to get on domestic flights because my current state issued ID is not considered secure enough to fly with. My voter registration card, which I received upon registration when I turned 18, does not have a photo of myself on it or any other personally identifying information. It's my name and my address. This should be the only documentation needed to vote. It did not come at a cost and registering for it was the only thing I was required to do in order to vote. Having a driver's license doesn't entitle you to vote. Last edited by packs; 02-13-2023 at 08:56 AM. |
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“interesting to some absolute garbage to others.” —- “Error cards and variations are for morons, IMHO.” |
#116
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My voter registration card was free. Why do I need anything else to vote?
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#117
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So we can see YOUR identity ? 😊
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It amazes me that a group can be brainwashed and lied to so bad that they don't even recognize when they are being lied to and brainwashed even more.
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 Last edited by irv; 02-13-2023 at 10:21 AM. |
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What are the similarities between the two issues? Voting is a right. Eating dinner at a business is not.
Last edited by packs; 02-13-2023 at 10:55 AM. |
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I’ve never understood this. If one believes that Russia is stealing US elections - wouldn’t one want FREE voter ID requirements to ensure only citizens are voting? It’s strange that the answer is invariably “no”.
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#122
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I don't think anyone believes Russia is voting in US elections. When they refer to election tampering it's in reference to messaging across various social media platforms leading up to an election.
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#123
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I have to give multiple forms of ID to exercise other constitutional rights. Shouldn’t one need to show they are indeed a citizen to have said rights as a citizen?
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#124
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This rule only applies to some of us
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I don't think there is a law that says US citizens are required to carry proof of citizenship. There are 15 states where no form of ID is required to vote and another 15 states that accept paper forms of identification that include utility bills, bank statements or your voter registration card.
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Any law that purports to solve the issue needs to be explicit enough to not allow someone’s ignorance (or political agenda) to take advantage of the lack of specificity. And it is that lack of specificity that is causing local schools to over-react and pull things off the shelves that rational people can agree should be there. Because, those local school teachers and administrators have a whole host of parents that they are on a first name basis with that they know are spoiling for a fight, rationality be damned. And those teachers and administrators know that no one from the state political apparatus will back them up. They are on their own. Quote:
It is completely mute on that point. For giggles, Google “school board meeting CRT” and read a few articles. There are plenty of them. This law does nothing to resolve that. In fact, I would bet it will only make things worse for the reason I state above. Quote:
My prediction is that this law isn't going to solve the problem is purports to solve. We are going to spend the next two years hearing about School Boards Gone Wild over what is being taught in schools. Each and every one of those stories will be a nice in-kind donation to Ron DeSantis' nascent Presidential campaign. |
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The statistics I saw indicate that 8% of white Americans lack a government issued ID that can be used to vote. 25% of African-Americans lack that type of ID. Lack of such an ID is closely linked with poverty. |
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Here's your chosen section: (d) Require, when appropriate to the comprehension of 330 students, that materials for social science, history, or civics 331 classes contain the Declaration of Independence and the 332 Constitution of the United States. A reviewer may not recommend 333 any instructional materials that contain any matter reflecting 334 unfairly upon persons because of their race, color, creed, 335 national origin, ancestry, gender, religion, disability, 336 socioeconomic status, or occupation or otherwise contradict the 337 principles enumerated under s. 1003.42(3). First, what definition do you need for "person"? It's incredibly obvious what a person means, no? That's an objection? Where does it say anyone cannot observe that Bull Connor was a racist, or teach that? It says they cannot recommend instructional material that reflect unfairly on any person specifically because of their race. "Bull Connor was a racist and did X, Y, Z" is just fine. "Bull Connor was a terrible person and a racist because he was white" would be banned. This section does not say what you are claiming it does, not even close. I get some people are really upset by this law, but dealing with what it actually says makes for a much better argument than making blatantly false claims about the text. Quote:
The left would be much better served by not playing into Desantis' hand and making wildly false claims about a bill that pushes an anti-racism angle and bans open advocacy of racism in the classroom to try and kill it. The whole point on their side is that this bill is a very liberal approach - just without a clause exempting teaching racism towards whites while still banning it against every other race. This is why I am having a hard time seeing anything wrong in the actual bill (not leftist op-ed's), it's a liberal take of a liberal value to not allow teaching racism and prejudice (again, it very, very directly bans advocacy, and advocacy only) to children. |
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Exactly.
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#132
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i am all for opposing views but opposing views when there is really no thought and just reliance on media or op ed who dont actually read the laws makes it hard to view an opposing view.. |
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In sum, I think we are each talking about a different topic. While you are talking about what is within the four walls of the bill, I am talking about what happens out in the wild as a result of the bill. You are asking "Does this sound reasonable?" and I am asking "how can someone abuse this bill in service to some other agenda?" I am not sure how we reconcile that. |
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Briefly summarized: "Indeed, Florida has required its schools to teach African American history since 1994, long before the recent push in many states to move toward a more complete telling of the country’s story. The stated goal at the time was to introduce the Black experience to a generation of young people." "But nearly three decades later, advocates say many Florida schools are failing to teach that history. Only 11 of the state’s 67 county school districts meet all of the benchmarks for teaching Black history set by the African American History Task Force, a state board created to help school districts abide by the mandate. Many schools only cover the topic during Black History Month in February, said Bernadette Kelley-Brown, the principal investigator for the task force. “The idea that every Florida student learns African American history, it’s not reality,” Kelley-Brown said. “Some districts don’t even realize it’s required instruction.” Also the 'review' of books and material results in a de facto ban, until further explicit direction is given. School boards, teachers, and administrators are threatened with civil and criminal sanctions for violations. At this point, ONE person can object to ANY perceived indiscretion to trigger investigation. While the law as written seems 'common sense' and innocuous, the consistent rhetoric from the governor and 'parent groups' indicate the real-life intent of application.
__________________
"If you ever discover the sneakers for far more shoes in your everyday individual, and also have a wool, will not disregard the going connected with sneakers by Isabel Marant a person." =AcellaGet |
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CNN...LMAO
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports, and omit information reporting that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Left Bias sources. Overall, we rate CNN left biased based on editorial positions that consistently favor the left, while straight news reporting falls left-center through bias by omission. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to several failed fact checks by TV hosts. However, news reporting on the website tends to be sourced adequately with minimal failed fact checks. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/cnn-bias/
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
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i also feel that with the failure rates in math and other subject areas in many of the states where the media or other criticism is coming from is so low, why not half the outrage on that versus a 'Clemente' outrage... the more kids learn real school skills and be educated the more they will have the tools to deal with some of the hardships of life due to many areas.. Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 02-14-2023 at 12:52 PM. |
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Nakedly transparent racism. Yup. And it will somehow be defended on this board.
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I was addicted to Brian Williams/Rachel Maddow MSNBC for a while just because it was so unashamedly biased that it was a huge source of entertainment for me. Watching them cover Trump's win over Hillary was special.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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I think that’s what some folks on the right don’t get. I lean left and get a kick out of left leaning news. I don’t take it seriously. It’s a biased joke sometimes. I hope they get a kick out of Fox News but I think they take it seriously. Ironically, Jon Stewart was the last bastion of true news.
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Your post is quoted right before the comment. I will quote again: "And it is that lack of specificity that is causing local schools to over-react and pull things off the shelves that rational people can agree should be there". I don't know what this is in reference too, because the books in this thread were not pulled off the shelves or banned. Again, nobody can cite any evidence these books have. What Jackie Robinson book has been pulled from the shelves? The one claimed in this thread turned out to be easily debunked fake news. Quote:
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This one is short and direct. It takes 10 minutes at most to read. Those who have read it struggle to find anything specific to attack and still choose to follow op-ed claims instead that are demonstrably false, or to even go so far as to dismiss a reason based standard entirely because they cannot find what is unreasonable and actually in the bill. The only giveaway that this was written by Republicans instead of Democrats is the “any race”; only that there’s no carve out to not protect whites like every other race. |
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Irv, I've got some startling news for you. This dog isn't sniffing the other one's butt.....
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Thats close enough for facebook and twitter.
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#147
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lol. :d
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
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A ban is an "official or legal prohibition." A ban says *these* books cannot be in your classroom. What we are seeing is educators, because they have no clear guidance, voluntarily (albeit reluctantly) pulling anything even tangentially related to the topic off the shelf. Quote:
In the United States, a heckler's veto is a situation in which a party who disagrees with a speaker's message is able to unilaterally trigger events that result in the speaker being silenced. For example, a heckler can disrupt a speech to the point that the speech is canceled. Quote:
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Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 02-15-2023 at 08:25 AM. |
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This has nothing to do with race at all. According to this article, this book was removed after a complaint (which was not even actually filed) that it had a pornographic scene. Proponents of the book say it is a non-arousing rape scene. It's been a number of years since I've read it (I like Morrison), but incest, rape, and child molestation are an integral part of the story and its metaphor and I cannot fathom how it would be considered pornographic. Pornography, what the article states is the reason, appears once in the bill: 320 1003.41. Instructional materials recommended by each reviewer 321 shall be, to the satisfaction of each reviewer, accurate, 322 objective, balanced, noninflammatory, current, free of 323 pornography and material prohibited under s. 847.012, and suited 324 to student needs and their ability to comprehend the material 325 presented. Reviewers shall consider for recommendation materials 326 developed for academically talented students, such as students 327 enrolled in advanced placement courses. I see no way a reasonable person could read this book, consider it obscene pornography under 847, and thus subject to ban from a high school. The students protesting the ban will surely win out here, as the law clearly does not in fact ban this. I have no issue with the bill banning pornography from schools. I suppose it is good that of the 3 books named in this thread, 1 actually has been removed from a school and only 2 were complete fake news! This superintendent overreacted, clearly did not read the law, and will surely regret it. |
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