toughest 1962 Jello

[hoot-owl]

Anybody out there collect the 1962 Jello set? Just curious who were/are the toughest cards to find beyond Bobby Richardson?

I still need about 40 for the set (and am always interested in buying them). There are still 8-10 cards that I have never seen for sale (or seen for large $$)--Pagliaroni, Spencer, Freese, Blasingame, Spangler, Simmons, Grammas, Bouchee and Maye.

Who is on your list?

[sflayank]

you have to list the #s for me to check my list

[Kenmarks]

Was just going thru the Net54 website for posts about the 1962 Jell-O set. Found this post that is about 10 years old now and got pretty limited action back then. Posted by Peter Mead and thought it was a very good question so was going to revive it by listing the toughest cards that I have found. In saying this, there are clearly different levels of "toughness" of cards within this set. While a number of cards are readily available (especially stars), there are a ton that are pretty tough. Thus it is somewhat arbitrary as to exactly where to draw a line when one identifies the "toughest". But here is my list in number order (21 cards):

1 Skowron
2 Richardson
13 Stafford
63 Paglaironi
69 Keough
70 Tasby
95 Stephens
112 Gilliam
113 Larker
115 Williams
116 Coleman
117 Blazingame
118 Freeze
156 Maye
157 Spangler
166 Flood
167 Simmons
168 Grammas
179 Law
180 Haddix
181 Smith

So this would be my list and certainly others could make a sustainable argument for other players that might be tough to refute with the limited amount of information available to collectors.

[Baseballcrazy62]

Hard to argue with that list.

[Promethius88]

Knowing I am missing all but 2 of the cards from that list, I can certainly agree! How come we hear about "finds" of old cards? Unopened boxes of Topps, recently with Bowman, I believe, T206's, the 64 Topps Giants, etc. When are we going to have a 62 Jell-O find hit the market?!?!?

[Harliduck]

No find here. I have a small stack of Jello cards I got as a kid from a local teacher who had been cutting them out. I had no idea what year...so dug them out. I'll be honest, I've never have been really excited about them so didn't know what I had. All were 1963, and only 1 1962 card...a nice Killebrew that is not on your list. So the great "Otto" find of one card isn't very significant!

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by Harliduck

No find here. I have a small stack of Jello cards I got as a kid from a local teacher who had been cutting them out. I had no idea what year...so dug them out. I'll be honest, I've never have been really excited about them so didn't know what I had. All were 1963, and only 1 1962 card...a nice Killebrew that is not on your list. So the great "Otto" find of one card isn't very significant!

The Killebrew isn't difficult but I've been looking for one with a full border. While I would like to have a full border for my own collection, a fellow collector expressed that he has been looking for one with for his Killebrew collection with a numerical grade for years. If yours has a full border and you are willing to part with it I would probably willing to pay way more than it is worth, lol.

[ALBB]

Some of those Jello were very tough to find,
Hoot Owl has been a fountain of knowledge when it comes to those

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by ALBB

Some of those Jello were very tough to find,
Hoot Owl has been a fountain of knowledge when it comes to those

There are several members here that are very knowledgeable about this set. I don't know where I would be without the guidance of some of these guys. Since the beginning of my quest about a year ago, I have learned so much and I still have a long way to go! Always love seeing pics of nice, clean Jell-O's!

[Harliduck]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

The Killebrew isn't difficult but I've been looking for one with a full border. While I would like to have a full border for my own collection, a fellow collector expressed that he has been looking for one with for his Killebrew collection with a numerical grade for years. If yours has a full border and you are willing to part with it I would probably willing to pay way more than it is worth, lol.

Sorry Tim...it's crease free but mostly cut within the border, surely not what your looking for. Wish I could help you out. Honestly, if it's something you would still want PM me your address and I'll ship it to you for nothing. I collect Killebrew as well (favorite player) but I'm just not interested in the Jello cards.

[skil55voy]

The list provided by Ken Marks is spot on. We have been attempting to ascertain which player is on what flavor box. Our list in this endeavor is incomplete. A few of us collectors that search out Jello and Post Cereal cards have come up with this list for 62 Jello:

1 BILL SKOWRON
2 BOBBY RICHARDSON
13 BILL STAFFORD
63 JIM PAGLAIRONI
69 MARTY KEOUGH
70 WILLIE TASBY
95 GENE STEPHENS
112 JIM GILLIAM
113 NORM LARKER
115 STAN WILLIAMS
116 GORDON COLEMAN
118 GENE FREEZE
156 LEE MAYE
157 AL SPANGLER
166 CURT FLOOD
167 CURT SIMMONS
168 ALEX GRAMMAS
179 VERNON LAW
180 HARVEY HADDIX
181 HAL SMITH

In all my years of collecting I have seen 3 sets for sale at shows. None of the 3 were complete. The closest being one in the middle 90's that was missing 3 cards: Stafford, Simmons and Haddix.

[skil55voy]

For viewing enjoyment: My 62 Jell-O Groat with all 4 black borders.

[Kenmarks]

Did not see a ton of disagreement with the initial list of the toughest cards to find in the 1962 Jell-O set. So just wondering what collectors thought are the next say 20 toughest cards to find. I know what I think, but thought I would ask others prior to posting. No need to list 20 at all. Heck even three or four that you believe are awful tough would be great. Thanks.

[frankhardy]

That list would explain why I can't finish my Cardinals team set. I still need Flood, Simmons, and Grammas.

[Collectorsince62]

Join the club. I've been looking for those three Cardinals for decades. When they do show up, the prices validate the scarcity. What awful flavors were they associated with?

[Kenmarks]

Shane/Collectorsince62--Obviously as you guys have found out, if you are a team collector and looking for 62 Jell-Os, you are going to be hard pressed to ever get the three Cardinals you are looking for. They are tough, tough, tough. In fact the Grammas card was the last one I found to complete my set (and the same with two other collectors I know). Maybe I can give you a bit more background.

In the 1962 Jell-O set, there were 18 teams with players in this set, with 9 of the teams impacted by these 21 listed player cards (and thus 9 teams with no players on this list). The Cardinals along with the Yankees and the Pirates lead the way with each having 3 players among the 21 toughies. And you occasionally see Yankee collectors lament the same difficulty you guys have experienced, only with Skowron, Richardson, and Stafford.

Related to the flavors of Jell-O the Cardinal players appeared on, it is pretty murky, as it is with really with the entire set. Absolutely none of them appeared additionally on pudding flavors as about 30% of the set did making those players very much more available. But after that, little is known about the flavors these 21 players appeared on except for 5 players I am aware of. Four of the players appeared on Black Raspberry flavor including one of your missing Cardinal players Alex Grammas. Related to Flood and Simmons, I am not aware of any absolute known tie to a specific Jell-O flavor. There is no company distribution list tying players to the Jell-O flavors they appeared on. But some of us do try to track when we see cards/boxes that allow us to know the flavor a player was on. And when you look at this tracking, one thing is pretty evident. It would look that when players were assigned their Jell-O flavor(s) to appear on, it was not totally random. You can see a ton of instances players with consecutive numbers were on the same flavor/size boxes. For example 12 Blanchard and 13 Arroyo were both on 3 oz. Blackberry; 19 Aspromonte and 20 Kaline both on 3 oz. Strawberry, 22 Lary and 23 Mossi both on 3 oz. Lime and so forth. This this goes throughout the set and I am certain to a much larger extent than we know for sure given the limited information on all the different player assignments to Jell-O flavors. In fact if one was to bet, one might have a strong position to say this pattern was utilize completely throughout the entire set. When you look at the toughest 21, there are a lot of consecutive numbers on that list (and in fact toughies 156 Maye and 157 Spangler both were on Black Raspberry). One of the last things in this discussion area relates to why you see some "stand-alone" toughies without a corresponding toughie immediately before or after. Best example might be Duke Snider #114. He is in the middle of a toughie streak of numbers running from 112 thru 116. While Snider can be a bit tough to find, the reason he is not listed as a toughie is that he was also on a pudding box (chocolate) making him considerably easier to find. However if you do have a Snider, it is most likely from a pudding box (one can tell by color and gloss) as the gelatin flavor Snider card is extremely hard to find and he may have only been on an Apple flavor gelatin box. Also because some players appeared on multiple flavors of Jell-O gelatin boxes, that could screw up the consecutive numbers idea thus making it less obvious given the available information today.

OK, so after all this background, back to the question of which flavors of Jell-O were the Cardinal players on. Grammas is known as he was on Black Raspberry. I would bet that Simmons was also Black Raspberry for sure given the distribution information above related to consecutive numbers. Less certain of Flood, although I guess I would go with Black Raspberry too, but would mean three numbers in a row on that which the company may not have done. Also it seems Flood is a touch easier to find than other Black Raspberry cards, so that goes against three in a row. I guess with Flood it is a TBD situation.

Soooo, maybe way too much info. Know Mike Skiles and Gelvert Meyer also are big into researching these cards (others too I am sure), so would love to hear your takes too.

[skil55voy]

Ken's post is spot on. As for collecting a Cardinals team set, Simmons, Flood etc. are extremely difficult. In addition if you are collecting Cardinals, from the 1963 Jell-O set: Javier, Gotay, James, Oliver, Gibson, McDaniel are relatively difficult to obtain as all of them appeared on 6 ounce boxes. In my experience James is the most difficult of the 5. (All of the difficult cards in the 63 set were on 6 ounce boxes) An aside to this is the Post Cereal sets from 61-63. There are no known toughies from the 62 set. Curt Flood can be difficult in the 63 Post set. It could also be noted that James is more difficult as he appeared on only one box type. In the 1961 set the Cardinals are the most difficult to complete. Dan Mabey referred to this in his book on the 1961 set. (Cardboard, Crunch, Milk & Scissors) "Four of the six single prints appeared on non-mainstream packages". As has been my experience they are and Larry Jackson is extremely difficult.
I am very interested in resolving who was on what box in the 62 Jell-O set. I have a list of players we have not identified. If any interest please message me.

[Kevvyg1026]

I have seen and read some of the posts regarding various Jello cards and the boxes on which they were found. Is there a similar discussion (re:list) regarding which cereal boxes the Post cereal cards were found?

In other words, isthere a compilation which identifies which cards were on which type of cereal box? I found this image on ebay.

1961 Post Cereal Box.jpg

[cannonballsun]

Dan Mabey wrote several books about Post Cereal cards. That information is probably readily available in his books. His books, however, are not that easy to come across. Probably someone on net 54 could direct you how on to pick up his books.
The Post Cereal cards are much better known than the 1962 Jell-O. Many things about 1962 Jell-O are still unknown. I think just about everything about the Post Cereal cards has been learned.

[Kenmarks]

It’s pretty tough these days to get ahold of one of Dan’s books. I think he sold out of everything except his 1962 book. Because of the technology used back 20+ years ago when the books were first published, and the loss of his masters in his move back to California a couple of years ago, he no longer has the ability of reprinting more copies of his books. It’s kind of sad because there is certainly a demand. If you want to get ahold of him directly, send me a note and I can help connect you up.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Kenmarks

It’s pretty tough these days to get ahold of one of Dan’s books. I think he sold out of everything except his 1962 book. Because of the technology used back 20+ years ago when the books were first published, and the loss of his masters in his move back to California a couple of years ago, he no longer has the ability of reprinting more copies of his books. It’s kind of sad because there is certainly a demand. If you want to get ahold of him directly, send me a note and I can help connect you up.

I wonder if they could be photocopied and reissued in book form like VCBC did with Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia's? You lose detail on the images but the text comes through fine.

[skil55voy]

When I bought his books, (perhaps 10 years ago "estimated")I had his contact information and he had them reprinted for me. I don't have his current contact info.

[Kenmarks]

Recently Dan unearthed his old floppy disks from the turn of this century that contained his book material. He is now going thru and working on being able to recover the book material to be able to reissue his books. Floppy disks are not easy to work with in these days. As a result it sounds like it is a bit of an uphill battle, but he also seems pretty committed. These books are going to be the same as the past and will not be updated for any new stuff unearthed since. That really is not a problem since there is only a miniscule amount of changes that could be made to the books today. They are classics and so many of us learned the basics of Post Cereal card collecting from Dan and his books. No timetable for completion that I have hard of.

[cannonballsun]

Originally Posted by Kenmarks

Recently Dan unearthed his old floppy disks from the turn of this century that contained his book material. He is now going thru and working on being able to recover the book material to be able to reissue his books. Floppy disks are not easy to work with in these days. As a result it sounds like it is a bit of an uphill battle, but he also seems pretty committed. These books are going to be the same as the past and will not be updated for any new stuff unearthed since. That really is not a problem since there is only a miniscule amount of changes that could be made to the books today. They are classics and so many of us learned the basics of Post Cereal card collecting from Dan and his books. No timetable for completion that I have hard of.

That is great news for collectors.

[Exhibitman]

You can get a USB-compatible external drive on Amazon for $11.99 and up.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Kenmarks

Recently Dan unearthed his old floppy disks from the turn of this century that contained his book material. He is now going thru and working on being able to recover the book material to be able to reissue his books. Floppy disks are not easy to work with in these days. As a result it sounds like it is a bit of an uphill battle, but he also seems pretty committed. These books are going to be the same as the past and will not be updated for any new stuff unearthed since. That really is not a problem since there is only a miniscule amount of changes that could be made to the books today. They are classics and so many of us learned the basics of Post Cereal card collecting from Dan and his books. No timetable for completion that I have hard of.

Good news! And updates could just be posted here.

[hoot-owl]

I can't believe I started this thread nearly 13-years ago. In that 13-year period--I reduced my want list to 12 1962 Jellos. All of them are on the list that Ken posted.

I also don't think I have picked up a needed Jello over the last three years--and prices seem to have doubled when you even see them.

Good luck--what a great set!

[ALBB]

In another 13 yrs... youll be a " little closer ! LOL

[savedfrommyspokes]

A rarely seen Tasby ended last evening on ebay at $1325 with 4 bidders bidding over $1k. Hopefully for the buyer, this card passes "authenticity".

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

A rarely seen Tasby ended last evening on ebay at $1325 with 4 bidders bidding over $1k. Hopefully for the buyer, this card passes "authenticity".

Although I'm pretty much out of the 62 Jell-O game, I was a little surprised, but not that surprised that the Tasby brought that much. Basically due to the condition. But as we know with this set, when you've been waiting to fill one of those last few holes, it doesn't really matter what it looks like.

What is surprising is what some of the other "not that difficult" cards have been selling for. While you don't see the Woodie Held come up every day, I wouldn't call it difficult. Shocked to see the one in that condition sell for $239. I thought the seller was nuts when he had the BIN up so high but sold it just under his asking price.

I might have do dig out the few extras I have left and list them!!

[Kenmarks]

Agree with you. Did you see the lot of 29 cards lot that sold maybe a week ago. 28 of the cards are pretty findable. But the 29th was the super tough Gene Stephens. Perhaps the second toughest of the entire set. That lot went for a bit over $1600, and totally driven by the one card. I had the same thoughts you did for Tasby on this Stephens card. Certainly expensive, but less that what the market has brough for the toughies the last 3 or 4 years. Prices might be softening on those super-SPs.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Kenmarks

Agree with you. Did you see the lot of 29 cards lot that sold maybe a week ago. 28 of the cards are pretty findable. But the 29th was the super tough Gene Stephens. Perhaps the second toughest of the entire set. That lot went for a bit over $1600, and totally driven by the one card. I had the same thoughts you did for Tasby on this Stephens card. Certainly expensive, but less that what the market has brough for the toughies the last 3 or 4 years. Prices might be softening on those super-SPs.

I did see that lot and was an underbidder (way under)...I don't want to out the Gilliam auction that listed recently, but it is already at $1k+. In about 8 days we'll collectively see if the theory on the softening market on these SSPs holds.

[frankhardy]

Thanks guys for all of the information. I posted my back in 2019. I still have not found a Flood, Simmons, or Grammas.

I found it interesting that someone posted how difficult a 1963 Jello Bob Gibson is. I was able to snag one a few years ago. I have all of the Post Cereal and Jello cards except for the 1962 Jello tough ones I listed above.

[Cliff Bowman]

I’m glad there aren’t any Cubs on the list, I think Don Zimmer was the last one I needed years ago and could probably use an upgrade.

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by frankhardy

Thanks guys for all of the information. I posted my back in 2019. I still have not found a Flood, Simmons, or Grammas.

I found it interesting that someone posted how difficult a 1963 Jello Bob Gibson is. I was able to snag one a few years ago. I have all of the Post Cereal and Jello cards except for the 1962 Jello tough ones I listed above.

Shockingly 2 Grammas have sold recently. I Flood was listed not too long ago and a Simmons, while not top 5 difficult, is currently listed in a lot. But good luck with that as it is listed along with a Stafford.
All of the cards should have been listed separately.