Collectors (PSA) Acquired SGC

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I guess Dave Foreman just couldn't resist a big payday. Stuff and MONEY trumps all.

Dave doesn’t work in the Peace Corps, he runs a business and has a family. And there have been plenty of times he could have sold SGC but didn’t because he didn’t want to leave SGC customers holding the bag. He felt comfortable this time because SGC will largely remain SGC but with improvements that only Collectors can provide. It’s human nature to presume the worst, and some trepidation is understandable. But I don’t believe the sky is falling, I think SGC will become a better version of itself.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Dave doesn’t work in the Peace Corps, he runs a business and has a family. And there have been plenty of times he could have sold SGC but didn’t because he didn’t want to leave SGC customers holding the bag. He felt comfortable this time because SGC will largely remain SGC but with improvements that only Collectors can provide. It’s human nature to presume the worst, and some trepidation is understandable. But I don’t believe the sky is falling, I think SGC will become a better version of itself.

+1,000….well said Jeff!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Rumor on Blowout that Nat is also looking to sell Goldin Auctions.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Rumor on Blowout that Nat is also looking to sell Goldin Auctions.

I heard that as well. Sounds like he doesn't think the juice is worth the squeeze and just wants to cut bait, if true.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I heard that as well. Sounds like he doesn't think the juice is worth the squeeze and just wants to cut bait, if true.

Maybe the former owner can buy it back now. With any luck, at a discount to the original sales price.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Rumor on Blowout that Nat is also looking to sell Goldin Auctions.

Hmmm, would have thought he'd use SGC to funnel more vintage cards through Goldin, just like he does with PSA.

IMO, Goldin isn't going to be worth nearly as much without the PSA connection.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Dave doesn’t work in the Peace Corps, he runs a business and has a family. And there have been plenty of times he could have sold SGC but didn’t because he didn’t want to leave SGC customers holding the bag. He felt comfortable this time because SGC will largely remain SGC but with improvements that only Collectors can provide. It’s human nature to presume the worst, and some trepidation is understandable. But I don’t believe the sky is falling, I think SGC will become a better version of itself.

Spot on.

I would like to say that if Dave F was running the Peace Coepa I do think he would de a great job.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Dave doesn’t work in the Peace Corps, he runs a business and has a family. And there have been plenty of times he could have sold SGC but didn’t because he didn’t want to leave SGC customers holding the bag. He felt comfortable this time because SGC will largely remain SGC but with improvements that only Collectors can provide. It’s human nature to presume the worst, and some trepidation is understandable. But I don’t believe the sky is falling, I think SGC will become a better version of itself.

well put, as only you can...

"Most things that I worry about, never happen anyway".

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Dave doesn’t work in the Peace Corps, he runs a business and has a family. And there have been plenty of times he could have sold SGC but didn’t because he didn’t want to leave SGC customers holding the bag. He felt comfortable this time because SGC will largely remain SGC but with improvements that only Collectors can provide. It’s human nature to presume the worst, and some trepidation is understandable. But I don’t believe the sky is falling, I think SGC will become a better version of itself.

Jeff, I wasn't attacking Dave, despite a few ethics concerns I may have, only that he took his megabucks when the right opportunity came along, just like most sane people would. Money drives the sports card hobby, just as it does for the whole economy. Money drives human emotions, too, with greed being one of the worst. Just look at all the devious practices going on in our own industry.
And, I have to say, I don't think Dave and the Peace Corps would have been a good fit.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Jeff, I wasn't attacking Dave, despite a few ethics concerns I may have, only that he took his megabucks when the right opportunity came along, just like most sane people would. Money drives the sports card hobby, just as it does for the whole economy. Money drives human emotions, too, with greed being one of the worst. Just look at all the devious practices going on in our own industry.
And, I have to say, I don't think Dave and the Peace Corps would have been a good fit.

He did what every Net 54 member would have done. The only difference is that he got the offer and no one did on Net 54. That might explain some of the sour grapes.

[ElCabron]

Is it this?:

Originally Posted by calvindog

there have been plenty of times he could have sold SGC but didn’t because he didn’t want to leave SGC customers holding the bag. He felt comfortable this time because SGC will largely remain SGC but with improvements that only Collectors can provide.

Or is it this?:

Originally Posted by calvindog

He did what every Net 54 member would have done. The only difference is that he got the offer and no one did on Net 54.

It sounds like maybe you actually do think Dave is in the peace corps and only refrained from selling because of his selfless dedication to the SGC customer base. Not because the offer wasn't right for him until now.

Regardless, it's no one's business why he sold or how much he got. When you own a business, you get to sell whenever you want, for as much or as little as you want.

I'm just grateful Dave held out as long as he could in order not to keep us collectors holding the bag. What a selfless act of hobby benevolence!

[calvindog]

Well, they're not incongruent. He had offers over the years that would have made him very wealthy but didn't take them in part because he felt that SGC customers could get screwed. And that is what largely made the prior offers not right for him. I know, because I spoke to him during that time period about them.

Now he got the offer he wanted and the comfort he needed for SGC customers.
Had he taken a prior offer, there would be outrage from his customer base, instead of what we have here, which is a mix of optimism, anguish and jealousy.

[Leon]

He should buy you 2 dinners.

Originally Posted by calvindog

Well, they're not incongruent. He had offers over the years that would have made him very wealthy but didn't take them in part because he felt that SGC customers could get screwed. And that is what largely made the prior offers not right for him. I know, because I spoke to him during that time period about them.

Now he got the offer he wanted and the comfort he needed for SGC customers.
Had he taken a prior offer, there would be outrage from his customer base, instead of what we have here, which is a mix of optimism, anguish and jealousy.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Well, they're not incongruent. He had offers over the years that would have made him very wealthy but didn't take them in part because he felt that SGC customers could get screwed. And that is what largely made the prior offers not right for him. I know, because I spoke to him during that time period about them.

Now he got the offer he wanted and the comfort he needed for SGC customers.
Had he taken a prior offer, there would be outrage from his customer base, instead of what we have here, which is a mix of optimism, anguish and jealousy.

Can you explain the comfort? Because I am not seeing that for SGC collectors (unless further information is coming out?).

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Can you explain the comfort? Because I am not seeing that for SGC collectors (unless further information is coming out?).

That Collectors will provide the capital to improve SGC and that SGC will remain a separate, ongoing company.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Can you explain the comfort? Because I am not seeing that for SGC collectors (unless further information is coming out?).

I do not see the comfort either….the Comfort in SGC was during the pandemic when PSA was way slowed and expensive…. This is the perfect time for Mr. Foreman to cash out. His company looks the strongest now as it has been in years they generated so much revenue more than usual, due to PSA, increases and slowness during the pandemic. The confidence will continue in SGC until the slabs become extinct, and when you send them to SGC they come back in a PSA holder as one United Company one slab. then will stay with PSA and everything will be OK. Collectors who loved SGC will coalesce knowing PSA bought SGC and their pre-war experience that they love this is a positive in the long run.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Well, they're not incongruent. He had offers over the years that would have made him very wealthy but didn't take them in part because he felt that SGC customers could get screwed. And that is what largely made the prior offers not right for him. I know, because I spoke to him during that time period about them.

I can vouch for this. I had similar discussions. Dave is proud of SGC and he feels loyal to his customer-base, and he declined previous offers, at least in part, because it was not good for the brand, his customers, and employees. I had not spoken to Dave in several months (although we did text recently and I congratulated him), so I cannot vouch for the second part of Jeff’s post. But if the past is any indication of the present, I suspect Jeff’s second paragraph is accurate. That said, it’s now collectors’ company and I suppose they will do with SGC what they will. Time will tell.

Like many, I too have many cards in SGC flips. I think selling now would be a terrible idea, because buyers are likely vultures looking for panicked sellers. It may be worthwhile considering crossing cards, although I am not sure that is necessary, as it will always be an option (and perhaps PSA will give some deal/facilitate it down the line). As far as buying SGC flips, if I see a card I want in an SGC flip, I will buy it with confidence; indeed, I wouldn’t mind getting a deal bc people are scared to buy. Trust me, I wish this wasn’t happening- because it creates a lot of uncertainty and more likely downside than upside - but, for me, it’s business as usual. I would be much more pessimistic had SGC closed down, or been bought by Beckett or some lesser company.

End of the day, if I can get cards in SGC flips at a discount bc people are scared to buy, great!

[Peter_Spaeth]

I plead very guilty to cynicism and skepticism especially in this hobby, but when the dominant market player acquires essentially the only remaining competitor in the vintage market, and people are trying to put a positive spin on it, no thanks.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I plead very guilty to cynicism and skepticism especially in this hobby, but when the dominant market player acquires essentially the only remaining competitor in the vintage market, and people are trying to put a positive spin on it, no thanks.

Hmmm...that does not sound like optimism, anguish or jealousy.

This deal meets the definition of big business and in big business we all know where the common man is. Call me a moron but I cannot see how Collectors could give any assurances or comfort to those holding SGC cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Hmmm...that does not sound like optimism, anguish or jealousy.

This deal meets the definition of big business and in big business we all know where the common man is. Call me a moron but I cannot see how Collectors could give any assurances or comfort to those holding SGC cards.

The parties or their shills can say anything, but just for myself I would take it with a grain of salt. If it turns out to be a good thing, it may be the first time that happened from eliminating competition, but this hobby is effed up enough that I suppose anything is possible.

[jimmer77]

I currently have 3 subs at SGC now, with several more that I am preparing to send, however my fear now is that given the state of todays workforce, will the employees and especially the graders completely check out and have less desire to peform their jobs at a high level.

Turn around times have slowed considerably lately, which doesnt bother me, but would hate to see bad grades given if employee moral has diminshed.