Would you buy a 1933 Goudey Ruth Raw?

[packs]

One person said they would have no qualms with purchasing raw cards. But they also cast doubt on what I said about it being pretty difficult or impossible to reprint an authentic Goudey card today. If you believed it was possible to print a convincing Goudey today, I would think you'd be more reserved about purchasing raw cards.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

One person said they would have no qualms with purchasing raw cards. But they also cast doubt on what I said about it being pretty difficult or impossible to reprint an authentic Goudey card today. If you believed it was possible to print a convincing Goudey today, I would think you'd be more reserved about purchasing raw cards.

That was probably me.

Theres an advantage older collectors have that seldom gets mentioned.
I "found" it a few years ago when we were discussing pretty much the same thing, and it was mentioned that experience handling the cards was important.
But I realized that when I was starting, lots of dealers at shows had stacks of low end Goudeys or pretty much any of the more common sets simply out on the table usually rubber banded.
So you could literally pick up and go through a few hundred at any show.

I also realized I hadn't seen that since the mid 80's. Yes there were stacks of cards, but fewer that were just loose. some were in pages, then sleeves, and toploaders, screwdowns, then grading came along.
not many collectors, or for that matter dealers have physically handled a lot of anything prewar outside some sort of holder.


As to it being easy, the level of difficulty would depend on the skill of the person doing it. I was around it and did some of the actual work occasionally for a bit over 2 years. With a bit of practice, and the equipment, yes, I could do a decent job of a Goudey. But I would have to spend maybe 5K on printing equipment, and practice a bit. And while the paper wouldn't be impossible it's not something I can just go pick up at Michaels.
A small print shop would have an easier time, the hard part is the color separations. Most counterfeits of modern cards that were done in the 80's failed because they made halftones of areas like border lines that were never halftones. A skilled small print shop could do it quicker.

I'm positive I've seen a convincing fake of an early 50's card, but being just a regular customer I wasn't in the know about who was shopping it around.

I don't know where it is, but I have one fake Goudey. The cardstock is right or very close, and it passed with a poor ebay scan. In hand though the printing is obviously done on a computer printer.

Bottom line is that while it's not hard for someone who knows how, it's not easy for someone who doesn't.

The only way I can think of to prove that is to setup a small print shop, and make a fake or two.... And that's not happening, I'd much rather spend the 5K i don't have on cards or stamps or bikes or beer, or ...... pretty much anything that wouldn't be likely to get me arrested.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

That was probably me.

Theres an advantage older collectors have that seldom gets mentioned.
I "found" it a few years ago when we were discussing pretty much the same thing, and it was mentioned that experience handling the cards was important.
But I realized that when I was starting, lots of dealers at shows had stacks of low end Goudeys or pretty much any of the more common sets simply out on the table usually rubber banded.
So you could literally pick up and go through a few hundred at any show.

I also realized I hadn't seen that since the mid 80's. Yes there were stacks of cards, but fewer that were just loose. some were in pages, then sleeves, and toploaders, screwdowns, then grading came along.
not many collectors, or for that matter dealers have physically handled a lot of anything prewar outside some sort of holder.


As to it being easy, the level of difficulty would depend on the skill of the person doing it. I was around it and did some of the actual work occasionally for a bit over 2 years. With a bit of practice, and the equipment, yes, I could do a decent job of a Goudey. But I would have to spend maybe 5K on printing equipment, and practice a bit. And while the paper wouldn't be impossible it's not something I can just go pick up at Michaels.
A small print shop would have an easier time, the hard part is the color separations. Most counterfeits of modern cards that were done in the 80's failed because they made halftones of areas like border lines that were never halftones. A skilled small print shop could do it quicker.

I'm positive I've seen a convincing fake of an early 50's card, but being just a regular customer I wasn't in the know about who was shopping it around.

I don't know where it is, but I have one fake Goudey. The cardstock is right or very close, and it passed with a poor ebay scan. In hand though the printing is obviously done on a computer printer.

Bottom line is that while it's not hard for someone who knows how, it's not easy for someone who doesn't.

The only way I can think of to prove that is to setup a small print shop, and make a fake or two.... And that's not happening, I'd much rather spend the 5K i don't have on cards or stamps or bikes or beer, or ...... pretty much anything that wouldn't be likely to get me arrested.

The bold part is what I think most can't comprehend. My favorite response is "if it can be done make me a 1952 Mickey Mantle". LOL, it is always a 52 Mantle.

Nothing against anyone that works in a print shop but it is just another simple job pretty much a anyone with half a brain can do. My great Uncle owned a print shop my whole life that employed between 20-30 people until he sold it around 10 years ago. Score had a plant close so many friends and family worked there the entire time it was open. Two of my best friends have worked in print shops their entire adult life. I know enough about the subject I know what is possible. I never once said there is a big ring of counterfeiters pumping out cards. I have repeatedly said how easily it WOULD be to do.