Ohtani vs. Ozuna WAR differences

[cgjackson222]

So Ohtani and Ozuna are both NL designated hitters with very similar hitting stats.

Ohtani's slash line is .292/.378/.614 with 40 HRs
Ozuna's slash line is .308/.379.588 with 37 HRs

Ohtani has 500 at bats to Ozuna has 481.

But Ohtani has a WAR of 6.5 and Ozuna has a WAR of only 4.3.
So Ohtani has more than 50% more WAR than Ozuna.

I understand Ohtani has 40 stolen bases and only 4 caught stealing vs. Ozuna's 0 stolen bases. And Ozuna has into 18 double plays vs. Ohtani's 6.

Ohtani has more doubles (29 to 24) and triples (6 to 0).

But does that explain why Ohtani has 50% more WAR than Ozuna?

What am I missing?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Ohtani's speed also translates to more runs scored....97 to 80 in his favor there. Not sure that explains all of it though

[jayshum]

I would think the baserunning stats you listed have a lot to do with the difference in WAR. Also, Ohtani has a 175 OPS+ compared to 165 for Ozuna which probably also helps Ohtani.

[D. Bergin]

I’d guess it comes down to the huge base running advantage, combined with slight advantages in total bases, OPS, OPS+, and Atlanta being considered more of a hitters Park than Los Angeles.

I can kind of see a 2.2 difference in WAR there.

I do think it’s odd that an average or slightly below average fielding position player at most positions, is docked more off their Overall WAR score, than a DH.

Ohtani and Ozuna both sport a -1.1 DWar score for being permanent DH’s, but it doesn’t affect their Overall WAR score at all. It’s still the same as their Offensive WAR.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I’d guess it comes down to the huge base running advantage, combined with slight advantages in total bases, OPS, OPS+, and Atlanta being considered more of a hitters Park than Los Angeles.

I can kind of see a 2.2 difference in WAR there.

I do think it’s odd that an average or slightly below average fielding position player at most positions, is docked more off their Overall WAR score, than a DH.

Ohtani and Ozuna both sport a -1.1 DWar score for being permanent DH’s, but it doesn’t affect their Overall WAR score at all. It’s still the same as their Offensive WAR.

Yeah, this is confusing. I guess they are essentially saying playing DH is neutral to your overall WAR?

But playing, let's say a bad leftfield, can be very detrimental to your WAR.

Doesn't seem particularly fair to me.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Yeah, this is confusing. I guess they are essentially saying playing DH is neutral to your overall WAR?

But playing, let's say a bad leftfield, can be very detrimental to your WAR.

Doesn't seem particularly fair to me.

Dante Bichette and Gary Sheffield would have had like 25 to 30 higher career WAR, if they had just stayed in the dugout for their entire careers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

26 points in slugging is not trivial.

[John1941]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I’d guess it comes down to the huge base running advantage, combined with slight advantages in total bases, OPS, OPS+, and Atlanta being considered more of a hitters Park than Los Angeles.

I can kind of see a 2.2 difference in WAR there.

I do think it’s odd that an average or slightly below average fielding position player at most positions, is docked more off their Overall WAR score, than a DH.

Ohtani and Ozuna both sport a -1.1 DWar score for being permanent DH’s, but it doesn’t affect their Overall WAR score at all. It’s still the same as their Offensive WAR.

Offensive WAR is adjusted for position just as Defensive WAR is, so Ohtani and Ozuna are still docked about a dozen runs of WAR a year for being a DH. The reason a DH's dWAR isn't included in his overall WAR is that to do so would be to factor in the positional adjustment twice. It's rather counterintuitive but that's how BR does it, at least.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by John1941

Offensive WAR is adjusted for position just as Defensive WAR is, so Ohtani and Ozuna are still docked about a dozen runs of WAR a year for being a DH. The reason a DH's dWAR isn't included in his overall WAR is that to do so would be to factor in the positional adjustment twice. It's rather counterintuitive but that's how BR does it, at least.

A dozen runs of WAR?

[John1941]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

A dozen runs of WAR?

That was a little awkwardly phrased but yes - that really just means 1.2 WAR a year or so. As I understand it, WAR is first calculated in runs and those runs are then converted into wins based on the value of those runs - so being 40 runs above replacement in 1908 would be correspond to more wins above replacement than in 1998. The standard rate of conversion is 10 runs above replacement per win above replacement.