T210 info requested, please school me!

[drmiraculous]

This forum always offers great info, so I hoped maybe someone could school me up on T210s and the series 8 Southern Leaguers in general. I have done a deep dive into the past threads here but still have some questions about these red border beauties. Being somewhat of a rookie to the pre-war scene, any discuss is probably good info so feel free to shout out!

Since I collect my own town's cards, I started adding T210s about ten years ago. My local club was in the series 8 group, there seems to be a few from that group that I never have seen in the wild yet others seem pretty common for cards from this era so it left me to wonder.

Are there short prints from each series? Seems like there must be, but wasnt sure.

Has anyone done a population count? Yes I probably could look it up but didn't find one in my previous search, if someone has already done it I would love to get an idea of what is out there.

Would you say the value of T210's has increased in proportion to other pre-war cards? Seems like they vary wildly and I can't get a handle on if they are all going up or maybe I am just after the short prints now.

Also there seem to be a few variants, is there a complete list available? Last time I relied on a rando internet list for T210's I later came across a variant I hadn't seen. doh!

I enjoy the artwork and the basic style of the cards, would like to know more about how they were designed, printed and distributed. I assume they were done like the other T series that have been discussed here with great detail.

Thanks in advance for the help, this rookie appreciates it!

[brass_rat]

I would encourage you to read through the old posts in this forum using the search function -- there's a ton of great stuff as well as fun cards to take a look at.

Here's a great thread where Jeremy writes out a lot of good info along with posts from other members:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=201334

Cheers,
Steve

[drmiraculous]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

I would encourage you to read through the old posts in this forum using the search function -- there's a ton of great stuff as well as fun cards to take a look at.

Here's a great thread where Jeremy writes out a lot of good info along with posts from other members:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=201334

Cheers,
Steve

I have searched all the forums here and said so, that thread has a lot of great cards being shown off but not much info or discussion about the questions I asked on production or population or shortprints. Thanks!

[FrankWakefield]

Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards, volume 3, about 20th century tobacco cards would be helpful for you. It was reprinted combined with volumes 1 and 2. It lists all of the cards, I don't think any have been discovered after publication. Also, the large Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards, Bob Lemke worked on assembling these, they were published by Krause; it has a good listing of the cards.

And Bert Sugar's The Sports Collector's Bible lists them, there were 4 editions of the book, try you get the 4th edition, and if not, go for the 3rd. He lists the each of the 8 series separately, and then in each series the cards are bunched by team. That'd be helpful if you're really after those hometown cards.

Dodging your query about short-prints, generally the cards of series 8 and 6 are the least plentiful, with series 7 close behind. Series 1 and 2 cards can eventually be tracked down.

Doc, I hope that helps. What's your home town?

[drmiraculous]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards, volume 3, about 20th century tobacco cards would be helpful for you. It was reprinted combined with volumes 1 and 2. It lists all of the cards, I don't think any have been discovered after publication. Also, the large Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards, Bob Lemke worked on assembling these, they were published by Krause; it has a good listing of the cards.

And Bert Sugar's The Sports Collector's Bible lists them, there were 4 editions of the book, try you get the 4th edition, and if not, go for the 3rd. He lists the each of the 8 series separately, and then in each series the cards are bunched by team. That'd be helpful if you're really after those hometown cards.

Dodging your query about short-prints, generally the cards of series 8 and 6 are the least plentiful, with series 7 close behind. Series 1 and 2 cards can eventually be tracked down.

Doc, I hope that helps. What's your home town?

Montgomery here! I will be sure to track down that info, it seems like there are three or four the Montgomery players that just dont pop up over the past twenty years or more, though I haven't deep dived auction house histories. I was curious if that was the case with every team's players in that series or across the T210 issue.
Thanks so much!

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by drmiraculous

I have searched all the forums here and said so, that thread has a lot of great cards being shown off but not much info or discussion about the questions I asked on production or population or shortprints. Thanks!

I think post #40 in that thread begins to address your question with respect to scarcity within Series 8 although it does not address the Series 1-7 short prints.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showpo...1&postcount=40

[drmiraculous]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

I think post #40 in that thread begins to address your question with respect to scarcity within Series 8 although it does not address the Series 1-7 short prints.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showpo...1&postcount=40

I agree that post and one other does indeed address the scarcity and some production with some theories but since that thread is almost ten years old I hoped to spark some fresh convo and see if there was any current info to be had!

[FrankWakefield]

Yes, I think the cards were not printed all at the same time; I do think each series has some cards that are less plentiful than others. That's my opinion. I encounter that with the Nashville players in that troublesome series 8. Some you see occasionally, some seldom. I encountered that with series 6, the Blue Grass League. With those I got to 65/66... I lacked Angermeier fielding.

Series 8, Montgomery players

Burnett
Daly
Graninger
Gribbin
Hart
McCreery
Miller
Nolly
Osteen
Pepe
Phillips
Pratt
Smith
Thomas (2)
Whiteman

from Bert Sugar's The Sports Collectors Bible 3rd Edition

[drmiraculous]

I know Whiteman and Osteen must exist as they are often listed, but has anyone ever seen one? I have been hunting them most of the last decade and haven't been able to track either one down.

I figured they were tougher, being regional interest, and likely printed in batches but some seem more rare so I was guessing they had some short prints involved. Pepe was the first one I picked up and have been chasing the rest ever since!
Thanks so much!

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by drmiraculous

I know Whiteman and Osteen must exist as they are often listed, but has anyone ever seen one? I have been hunting them most of the last decade and haven't been able to track either one down.

I figured they were tougher, being regional interest, and likely printed in batches but some seem more rare so I was guessing they had some short prints involved. Pepe was the first one I picked up and have been chasing the rest ever since!
Thanks so much!

https://robertedwardauctions.com/arc...eman-sgc-vg-40

https://robertedwardauctions.com/arc...een-sgc-poor-1

[sb1]

I have offered both Osteen and Whiteman in the past..

https://brockelmanauctions.com/T210_...-LOT23056.aspx

https://brockelmanauctions.com/T210_...-LOT23173.aspx

The series 8 scarcities seem to have a direct relationship with the T211 Red Sun set which is essentially half of the T210 Series 8 players.

[drmiraculous]

Originally Posted by sb1

I have offered both Osteen and Whiteman in the past..

https://brockelmanauctions.com/T210_...-LOT23056.aspx

https://brockelmanauctions.com/T210_...-LOT23173.aspx

The series 8 scarcities seem to have a direct relationship with the T211 Red Sun set which is essentially half of the T210 Series 8 players.

Glad to know they are out there, bummed I missed them. They are the first I have seen, though I admit I haven't been dedicated to watching auction houses. Guess I will now. Thanks so much!

[FromVAtoLA]

Originally Posted by drmiraculous

I know Whiteman and Osteen must exist as they are often listed, but has anyone ever seen one? I have been hunting them most of the last decade and haven't been able to track either one down.

TCDB shows 16 Montgomery Climbers cards including a couple of variations. Here's the Montgomery Climbers master card list from TCDB, which totals 53 cards and I included images of Whiteman and Osteen.
https://www.tcdb.com/Team.cfm/tid/23...tName=&sBrand=

[FromVAtoLA]

Originally Posted by FromVAtoLA

TCDB shows 16 Montgomery Climbers cards including a couple of variations. Here's the Montgomery Climbers master card list from TCDB, which totals 53 cards and I included images of Whiteman and Osteen.

Ah, the images didn't embed in the post - just take a look at the TCDB link and you'll see them.

[drmiraculous]

Thanks so much! TCDB was one of the places that clued me into there being variations. Has anyone seen that Thomas portrait? I am guessing thats the rarest of the Montgomery T210's, just from it not being photographed anywhere or found in the wilds.

[sb1]

Thomas Portrait was also offered in my 2023 T210 auction..

https://brockelmanauctions.com/T210_...-LOT23156.aspx

[drmiraculous]

Outstanding! I have to say its the first time I have seen one. Thank you!
Please let me know if you come across another!