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#1
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New PSA Terms & Conditions: Comp. Damages and Injunctive Relief for Card Doctoring
PSA updated their Terms & Conditions last week to include the following language regarding card doctoring:
‘12. Doctored and Inauthentic Items; Fraud Prevention and Investigation. (a) You represent and warrant that any item submitted for any PSA Grading Service is genuine and you have no knowledge and no reasonable basis to believe that the item is a “Doctored” item. You affirm your obligations with respect to Doctored items set forth in these Terms. For purposes of these Terms, “Doctor,” “Doctored” or “Doctoring” means the alteration of the appearance of an item by things such as, but not limited to, trimming, re-coloring, bleaching, power erasing, cleaning, waxing, re-backing or any other form of restoration used to enhance the appearance, condition or content of an item. (b) You agree that you will not Doctor items or participate in any way in Doctoring items or submitting any items to PSA for grading which you know or have reason to believe have been Doctored in any way, and acknowledge that the determination as to whether an item should be authenticated or graded shall be made solely by PSA in accordance with its standards. You acknowledge that detecting Doctored items is very difficult. You acknowledge that PSA will not authenticate or grade items which, in the judgment of PSA, bear evidence of Doctoring. However, because the determination by PSA to reject such Doctored items will require a review by PSA’s personnel, you will be required to remit, as set forth herein, the standard fee for any such Doctored items that are submitted to PSA. You acknowledge that Doctoring is wrongful and inappropriate activity which is harmful to PSA, and all of your obligations in this Section 12 shall survive termination of these PSA Terms. … (d) You agree that PSA would suffer irreparable damages if you were to engage in Doctoring of any item and that PSA is entitled to not only compensatory damages but also preliminary and final injunctive relief for any breach of your obligation not to Doctor items or to submit Doctored items to PSA in violation of your obligations hereunder.’ https://www.psacard.com/termsandconditions Last edited by 4815162342; 09-19-2024 at 06:41 PM. |
#2
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So all cleaning (water and a q tip etc..) is now doctoring? And I am supposed to say that in order to submit to them it is wrong and I won't do it. Nice.
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Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 09-19-2024 at 06:56 PM. |
#3
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This reads to me like they are no longer going to encapsulate trimmed cards at all anymore, which would include ones like this:
https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=188543
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#4
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I’m sure this is aimed at the marketed card cleaning solution companies that openly brag online, with pictures and video, about bumping 3 or 4 grades with PSA.
Last edited by 4815162342; 09-19-2024 at 07:06 PM. |
#5
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If only PSA actually took card doctoring more seriously and didn't just pay lip service.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-19-2024 at 07:14 PM. |
#6
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#7
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CU sued some coin dealers years ago for submitting doctored coins. You would think it would be a bad PR move, acknowledging they had been fooled.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#8
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On the coin side I was recently watching videos and several coin guys bragged about sending in cleaned coins. Very similar to the card bro videos. Last edited by bnorth; 09-19-2024 at 07:28 PM. |
#9
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#10
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-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#11
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Joked or stated a fact?
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#12
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Wonder if ‘52 Robinson PSA 02023137 That went from a PSA 8 to
PSA authentic played a small part ? https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=353161 |
#13
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#14
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-20-2024 at 07:15 PM. |
#15
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Anyway, most collectors almost appreciate it, it seems, because without that work having been done on that card, it would not have been available to them to buy.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#16
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CU was a public company for decades. They are now owned by very sophisticated and successful people. The notion that they don't understand the risk of their own warranty is not plausible.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#17
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According to their terms and conditions can't they just deactivate the cert # and tell the owner to pound sand?
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#18
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These guys don't even know that their own cards are doctored lol. You think they have their finger on the pulse of the extent to which the entire high end vintage market has been doctored?
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#19
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It is not just high end vintage that is at risk to being altered but any card in any grade where taking the time to fix it yields a justifiable profit to the fixer.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#20
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Yes, I think they know. How could they not? As you well know, it's a new world and many collectors don't really care. For 33 years they've controlled their warranty exposure, I see no reason that is going to change.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-20-2024 at 11:16 PM. |
#21
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They've managed their warranty exposure by not honoring it in many cases and by being incompetent in others though.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#22
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Right, but the point is it's entirely within their control/discretion. "The graders stand behind the grade." Now what you gonna do, sue? Good luck with that. As the old intro to the Outer Limits went, we control the horizontal, we control the vertical.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-21-2024 at 09:19 AM. |
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