Which Jackie would you buy?

[uniship]

Back to the original posting - I think both cards are absolutely magnificent. Think about how hard it is for a card of that magnitude to survive 72 years remaining in such amazing condition. We all get so bogged down in debating and in comparing that we sometimes lose sight of just how amazing it is that cards like these can still exist today.

The PSA example AND the SGC example would each be a true highlight for almost any collection.

With that being said, I think the SGC example is superior.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by uniship

Back to the original posting - I think both cards are absolutely magnificent. Think about how hard it is for a card of that magnitude to survive 72 years remaining in such amazing condition. We all get so bogged down in debating and in comparing that we sometimes lose sight of just how amazing it is that cards like these can still exist today.

The PSA example AND the SGC example would each be a true highlight for almost any collection.

With that being said, I think the SGC example is superior.

The percentage of very high grade vintage cards that "survived in that condition" as opposed to having some help in getting them into those holders is very near zero. If that fact doesn't bother you, then by all means, buy what you love. But if that does bother you, you should reevaluate which cards you choose to buy.

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

It’s been deactivated from PSA certification

Interesting

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Ya, it's a $250k cap per card, but there's also a lifetime cap of $500k per individual. So you don't get many chances to cash in when something goes wrong if you're a high end collector. Some of these guys like Marshall Fogel, Ken Kendrick, and Brady Hill have millions of dollars worth of trimmed cards in their collections and they don't even know it. It's a significant risk to carry. Fogel's 52 Mantle is sheet cut.

If the max is $500K per collector and these guys have millions of dollars of trimmed cards, they are not sending any back to PSA.

At some point in time in the future, they will be sold in a major auction to someone else who believes they are legitimate so they are not going anywhere.

I cannot imagine anyone high on the registry on a particular set suddenly saying, "Oh, most of my high grade cards are trimmed according to a guy on Net54 so let me get them all into authentic holders and get $500K of my millions of dollars back."

You may well be correct about the authenticity of most high grade cards but the population of them is not going down significantly in our lifetime. One occasionally, maybe, but not thousands of them.

The major auction houses will not be rejecting high graded cards nor will they be advising the buyers that cards may be trimmed although in holders. At least not IMO.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rand1com

If the max is $500K per collector and these guys have millions of dollars of trimmed cards, they are not sending any back to PSA.

At some point in time in the future, they will be sold in a major auction to someone else who believes they are legitimate so they are not going anywhere.

I cannot imagine anyone high on the registry on a particular set suddenly saying, "Oh, most of my high grade cards are trimmed according to a guy on Net54 so let me get them all into authentic holders and get $500K of my millions of dollars back."

You may well be correct about the authenticity of most high grade cards but the population of them is not going down significantly in our lifetime. One occasionally, maybe, but not thousands of them.

The major auction houses will not be rejecting high graded cards nor will they be advising the buyers that cards may be trimmed although in holders. At least not IMO.

In this day and age, the flip, not the card, is what matters. PSA will be just fine, thank you, and it now has no competition. You can put the most obviously hacked up card up for auction and it will set records. Hell, people post cards here that are obviously not right, but the vast majority just ooh and aah.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Travis -- basis for your claim about Fogel's Mantle?

I had a conversation with someone who claims to know the person that cut the sheet. This person would know too. I won't say his name, but everyone here would recognize it. The reason I believe him is because it also looks like a sheet-cut card. The edges and corners are not natural looking for a 52 Topps. They're way too perfect. And it's not small.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I had a conversation with someone who claims to know the person that cut the sheet. This person would know too. I won't say his name, but everyone here would recognize it. The reason I believe him is because it also looks like a sheet-cut card. The edges and corners are not natural looking for a 52 Topps. They're way too perfect. And it's not small.

When was this cutting allegedly done? If I recall the farthest back this card traces is to Mark Murphy, is that right?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by rand1com

If the max is $500K per collector and these guys have millions of dollars of trimmed cards, they are not sending any back to PSA.

At some point in time in the future, they will be sold in a major auction to someone else who believes they are legitimate so they are not going anywhere.

I cannot imagine anyone high on the registry on a particular set suddenly saying, "Oh, most of my high grade cards are trimmed according to a guy on Net54 so let me get them all into authentic holders and get $500K of my millions of dollars back."

You may well be correct about the authenticity of most high grade cards but the population of them is not going down significantly in our lifetime. One occasionally, maybe, but not thousands of them.

The major auction houses will not be rejecting high graded cards nor will they be advising the buyers that cards may be trimmed although in holders. At least not IMO.

No, of course they're not going to do that. Not for the million dollar cards. But they are carrying a significant risk just by owning them. If the slabs ever get damaged or cracked somehow, PSA isn't going to honor those grades.

Also, when some of these cards get sold and the new buyers learn that they just purchased a trimmed card, some do send them in for review. At least for cards worth $250k or less where they're "protected". That's what happened with the 52 Jackie PSA 8 from earlier in this thread.

Something else worth pointing out is that the more PSA chooses to shine a light on this aspect of the hobby, the more people will be motivated to send their cards in for review so they can cash in on the insurance policy.

I don't know how many years it will take, but in the long run, I think PSA abandons their guarantee.

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When was this cutting allegedly done? If I recall the farthest back this card traces is to Mark Murphy, is that right?

In the 1980s. I also heard rumors about Rosen finding ‘52 Topps High sheets & oversized cards. A number of dealers who are collecting them are also aware but probably won’t talk.

There’s a reason we can find at least one uncut sheet for pretty much every 50s Topps series (in general) except for the last two 52 Topps series. Note: We did have uncut Topps higher #’d series sheets brought to an early 80s National that is documented in a Beckett annual (will post pics later as I have it).

[Peter_Spaeth]

I can't tell if it's sheet cut.

[uniship]

Holy moly look at that card!! JUST LOOK AT IT!!

Reminds me of this classic 3 minute video:

https://youtu.be/EF8GhC-T_Mo?si=z9YFmwF-tl86bjaW

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I can't tell if it's sheet cut.

It is hard to tell from a pic unless it was horribly bad cut. I would bet in hand it wouldn't be that hard to have a way better opinion. I can't imagine how many full sheets I have cut up. Each way I have done it looks slightly to way different than factory cuts. Before anyone asked I have never tried to have any graded and I have disclosed when selling those cards that I personally sheet cut them.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I can't tell if it's sheet cut.

There are precisely zero 1952 Topps cards that look like this naturally. It's not like they paused production to replace all the rotorary blades and the guillotine blades for the one sheet and then paused production again to put the old blades back in for the rest of them lol.

This card is "sheet-cut" without question, IMO. It's also slightly oversized in every direction. Oversized cards always have imperfect corners because they stick out in packs. There's just no way this card is natural. And the borders are way too white too. But it sure is pretty.

[Exhibitman]

Does mine look trimmed?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Snowman

There are precisely zero 1952 Topps cards that look like this naturally. It's not like they paused production to replace all the rotorary blades and the guillotine blades for the one sheet and then paused production again to put the old blades back in for the rest of them lol.

This card is "sheet-cut" without question, IMO. It's also slightly oversized in every direction. Oversized cards always have imperfect corners because they stick out in packs. There's just no way this card is natural. And the borders are way too white too. But it sure is pretty.

Agree it's more than likely sheet cut. Still wow great card

[scottglevy]

I like the SGC more by quite a wide margin. The centering is so much better. I do think that it’s also a decent choice to wait for a better overall copy - that you may be able to find in a lower than 8 grade as well.