Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED

[bk400]

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2021/3...review-two-way

Article above written in March 2021, before the start of Ohtani's 4-year reign of terror, but after his struggles in 2020. Sounds like he and the Angels put a lot of thought into his regimen. Interestingly, they took away restrictions on his workload, allowing him to actually do more two-way stuff rather than less.

He also started squatting heavy again and came in at 225 pounds in spring training in 2021. I'd imagine that helped a lot, especially after his 2019 knee surgery.

As an aside, Ohtani is still listed right now at 210 lbs, but he looks like he's a lot bigger than that when you see him standing next to Bryce Harper -- who's also listed at 210:

https://x.com/MLB/status/1811061670493511797/photo/1

[packs]

I feel like getting big is the worst possible thing a pitcher could do. If he's going to DH, sure, get huge. But can you think of a single monster bodied pitcher who had any kind of sustained success?

I remember the year Syndergaard showed up at Mets spring training looking like Bane. Everyone lauded his workout routine and all the press was expecting a huge season out of him. Instead he got hurt, missed the next three seasons, came back a shell of himself and was out of the game at 30 years old, having won 59 total games.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

I feel like getting big is the worst possible thing a pitcher could do. If he's going to DH, sure, get huge. But can you think of a single monster bodied pitcher who had any kind of sustained success?

I remember the year Syndergaard showed up at Mets spring training looking like Bane. Everyone lauded his workout routine and all the press was expecting a huge season out of him. Instead he got hurt, missed the next three seasons, came back a shell of himself and was out of the game at 30 years old, having won 59 total games.

I would say if he focused on lower body it's a good thing even as a pitcher. I would agree if he's bulking up upper body though.

[packs]

I agree. A strong pair of legs is always good for a pitcher. But you aren't going to throw harder because you lift weights and if anything, it's only going to limit your movement, likely resulting in injury.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I agree. A strong pair of legs is always good for a pitcher. But you aren't going to throw harder because you lift weights and if anything, it's only going to limit your movement, likely resulting in injury.

So why so many pitchers using PEDs?

[packs]

It was my understanding that pitchers benefit the most from the advanced healing aspects of PED use.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

It was my understanding that pitchers benefit the most from the advanced healing aspects of PED use.

Which is actually the reason McGwire took them. Look at the years before, he couldn't stay on the field. Hell he didn't need more power, he hit 49 home runs as a beanpole rookie. But he was ALWAYS hurt until he started andro and whatever else.

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by packs

It was my understanding that pitchers benefit the most from the advanced healing aspects of PED use.

I can tell you from experience when I was in my 20's I did a couple of cycles of Decca and testosterone and you don't even feel the muscle the next day after a hard workout. The benefits are absolutely insane. Gaining 15lbs in a few weeks was common. You feel like a whole other level human when you are on it but are quickly humbled when you stop. This was in the 90's, I can only imagine how much better the PEDs are today.

[jboosted92]

Originally Posted by Tomi

I can tell you from experience when I was in my 20's I did a couple of cycles of Decca and testosterone and you don't even feel the muscle the next day after a hard workout. The benefits are absolutely insane. Gaining 15lbs in a few weeks was common. You feel like a whole other level human when you are on it but are quickly humbled when you stop. This was in the 90's, I can only imagine how much better the PEDs are today.

yah this is correct, its not that it "makes muscles" its that you can put in 30 hours a week of heavy lifting and not feel it.. lol

[calvindog]

I haven’t seen any mention in the media after last night’s Dodgers game about Ohtani reaching 400 total bases. Just the 30th time it’s ever been done and the first time since 2001.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I haven’t seen any mention in the media after last night’s Dodgers game about Ohtani reaching 400 total bases. Just the 30th time it’s ever been done and the first time since 2001.

I just came from Twitter and saw this

So impressive

[calvindog]

Taking away the steroid guys and the altitude guys and you don’t have much. Seven games ago he was at 360.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Taking away the steroid guys and the altitude guys and you don’t have much. Seven games ago he was at 360.

And Aaron Judge has an OPS+ of 226 and has 392 total bases with 3 games against the Pirates left.

OPS+ Single Season Leaders
Babe Ruth 1920 255
Babe Ruth 1921 239
Babe Ruth 1923 239
Ted Williams 1941 235
Ted Williams 1957 233
Aaron Judge 2024 226
Babe Ruth 1926 226

Throw in the rookie season of Paul Skenes and this is one of the best years for baseball in a long time.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by rats60

And Aaron Judge has an OPS+ of 226 and has 392 total bases with 3 games against the Pirates left.

OPS+ Single Season Leaders
Babe Ruth 1920 255
Babe Ruth 1921 239
Babe Ruth 1923 239
Ted Williams 1941 235
Ted Williams 1957 233
Aaron Judge 2024 226
Babe Ruth 1926 226

Throw in the rookie season of Paul Skenes and this is one of the best years for baseball in a long time.

Agreed. The Judge OPS+ numbers and total bases are off the charts historically.

[D. Bergin]

Hope they let Judge get to 400 total bases before they decide to give him a rest. Yankees still competing for a 1 seed with Indians (not sure if that matters), so maybe it won't come into play.

[D. Bergin]

Throw in Judge's 133+ walks and 9 HBP, and I'd say that's a pretty good season. He's been on base a bit, despite all those strikeouts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Hope they let Judge get to 400 total bases before they decide to give him a rest. Yankees still competing for a 1 seed with Indians (not sure if that matters), so maybe it won't come into play.

He is not in tonight's lineup.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by packs

I feel like getting big is the worst possible thing a pitcher could do. If he's going to DH, sure, get huge. But can you think of a single monster bodied pitcher who had any kind of sustained success?

I remember the year Syndergaard showed up at Mets spring training looking like Bane. Everyone lauded his workout routine and all the press was expecting a huge season out of him. Instead he got hurt, missed the next three seasons, came back a shell of himself and was out of the game at 30 years old, having won 59 total games.

Wouldnt you say Roger Clemens bulked up? His head enlarged 3x it seemed.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Ohtani putting on a late push for a triple crown too. I had written off the batting title a few weeks ago, only a couple points down now.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Ohtani putting on a late push for a triple crown too. I had written off the batting title a few weeks ago, only a couple points down now.

Yes, I just noticed that as well. Looks like it is mathematically possible. After tonight's game, his WAR will be over 9, which I believe is unprecedented for a DH.

[Peter_Spaeth]

35/93 for September lol.

[bk400]

So here's a question -- let's say Ohtani wins his 3rd MVP unanimously. He then gets hurt next year, can't pitch anymore, and then finishes his career with a few .275, 20 HR, 80 RBI seasons -- so something like a career 60 WAR -- is he still a first-ballot lock for the HOF?

Bonds, A-Rod, Trout and Pujols are the only four players with 3-MVPs who are not in the Hall. We know about Bonds and A-Rod.

Pujols is an obvious lock for the first ballot. I think Trout is also a lock based on his career WAR. I'd argue that Ohtani is also a lock based on his peak years plus the uniqueness of his tenure. But I bet there are those who might disagree.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bk400

So here's a question -- let's say Ohtani wins his 3rd MVP unanimously. He then gets hurt next year, can't pitch anymore, and then finishes his career with a few .275, 20 HR, 80 RBI seasons -- so something like a career 60 WAR -- is he still a first-ballot lock for the HOF?

Bonds, A-Rod, Trout and Pujols are the only four players with 3-MVPs who are not in the Hall. We know about Bonds and A-Rod.

Pujols is an obvious lock for the first ballot. I think Trout is also a lock based on his career WAR. I'd argue that Ohtani is also a lock based on his peak years plus the uniqueness of his tenure. But I bet there are those who might disagree.

I’ll go a step further. I think he gets in if he suffers career ending injury today, and never plays again. They’ll pass an Ohtani clause to forego the 10 year rule and vote him in pretty definitively.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I’ll go a step further. I think he gets in if he suffers career ending injury today, and never plays again. They’ll pass an Ohtani clause to forego the 10 year rule and vote him in pretty definitively.

He's just finishing his 7th year. I think he would get a display but no one is going to lower the requirement by 3 years. Hopefully never comes up.

Did Arraez sit out yesterday after a 3 hit game?