A New All Time Record for a Sports Card

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Got anything substantive to say?

Believe he has summed it up above.

[brianclat11]

So, three guys who have a boatload of money want to speculate with a bit of it on sports cards. They will not be impacted at all in their day to day lives if the card drops in value. However, my guess is that it will go for much more years from now. It is the GOAT of the sport along with one of the top players of all time who has passed away. It is a bit of contrived scarcity, but who cares. It brings more visibility to the hobby and is fun. If the .1% want to get in at the top of the hobby, I'm all for it. Believe me, this will have no bearing on the level of cards I purchase.

[Rhotchkiss]

Each to their own, but I prefer these for literally a mere fraction of the price

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by brianclat11

So, three guys who have a boatload of money want to speculate with a bit of it on sports cards. They will not be impacted at all in their day to day lives if the card drops in value. However, my guess is that it will go for much more years from now. It is the GOAT of the sport along with one of the top players of all time who has passed away. It is a bit of contrived scarcity, but who cares. It brings more visibility to the hobby and is fun. If the .1% want to get in at the top of the hobby, I'm all for it. Believe me, this will have no bearing on the level of cards I purchase.

That sums it up pretty well.

[puckpaul]

Yeah, Mamdani is an obvious anti-Semite and has racist upbringing and Muslim brotherhood connections. He wants to defund the police and eliminate misdemeanors. Breath of fresh air? More like the stench of a Trojan Horse. There are so many reasons the should be outright rejected. Raising taxes is the last one.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Yeah, Mamdani is an obvious anti-Semite and has racist upbringing and Muslim brotherhood connections. He wants to defund the police and eliminate misdemeanors. Breath of fresh air? More like the stench of a Trojan Horse. There are so many reasons the should be outright rejected. Raising taxes is the last one.

Most of this is easily refutable but I don't think this is the place for it. Happy collecting!

[sreader3]

This thread has strayed pretty far from the merits of the purchase.

1) It is an unattractive card;
2) The signatures are hard to decipher (I can barely tell if they run top to bottom or bottom to top);
3) The card is not from a popular set;
4) Nobody has a nostalgic connection to this card (I’m not talking about the ATHLETES—of course people love Kobe and MJ).

So I don’t get the record price tag. But I am glad to see new people and new money migrate into the hobby. That is healthy. Maybe Mr. Wonderful will discover T206.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Yeah, Mamdani is an obvious anti-Semite and has racist upbringing and Muslim brotherhood connections. He wants to defund the police and eliminate misdemeanors. Breath of fresh air? More like the stench of a Trojan Horse. There are so many reasons the should be outright rejected. Raising taxes is the last one.

All I asked is what card will break the record next

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

All I asked is what card will break the record next

This one. Maybe.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

All I asked is what card will break the record next

I mean…seems like the most obvious answer for this crowd is going to be a 311 Mantle, a T206 Wagner, or pick your favorite high grade early Ruth.

But from the looks of it, some fugly modern card that a few people go nuts over will be the correct answer.

[MR RAREBACK]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

The SGC 9.5 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle has been topped.

This sold last night at Heritage.

What will break the record next?

I can’t believe anyone would pay more then 150k for this

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Net54 knowing who Kevin O’Leary is but not Shyne has reminded me that this is small small pond here in terms of knowing what’s going on in the hobby

Maybe Shyne's trying to make people forget that he was one of the middle-men in the Pokemon sealed case which contained GI Joe cards.

[bcbgcbrcb]

I don’t see the side where the hobby benefits from someone that can make $20 Billion business offers buys a basketball card for $13MM. Not only that, he has already come out and stated publicly that his card is just another asset class to add to his bitcoin, gold bars, S&P 500 portfolio, etc. A hobby benefits when hobbyists thrive, is that happening in any way here? In the big picture, I see it as just another nail in the coffin to hobbyists who are priced out of the market already and just seeing things becoming more and more hopeless.

Anyone think this was an astute purchase by someone who is going to treasure this beauty for the rest of their life? He already says it will never come up for sale again during his lifetime. Apparently, he already owns a number of other basketball cards. Want to bet these didn’t come from 2020-21 Goldin Auctions?

People like this used to buy mansions, private jets, yachts, etc. with their fortunes but have now begun to invade our hobby. Us long time hobbyists always knew that if people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc. ever started going after sports cards, we would never be able to compete. But, it never happened on a large scale until COVID. I’m afraid that the hobby has changed forever as has society as a whole. I’m starting to believe that it is never going back to the way it was either. Maybe I’m late to the party here but am still holding out hope that rational individuals will once again prevail over the “gotta have it now” mentality.

One more thing, us long time hobbyists who have been subscribing to Sports Collectors Digest since the 70’s and 80’s will note that every issue’s “Highest Recent Sales” will present 90-95% modern sports cards with the only exception typically being the 52T Mantle because you can’t publish a sports card story without one of those being mentioned. Pretty obvious who is running the hobby today and that’s where all of the irrational spending starts with.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

He already says it will never come up for sale again during his lifetime.

And any time a high dollar card makes the news, or a different card stands a shot at breaking the record, this card will be given free publicity...and it's not for sale. Its inaccessibility even to the few who could afford it will eat away at them. They are not used to hearing the word "no". This will drive the desire to turn that "no" into the "By all means, sir!" that they are so freely given in most other avenues in their lives. It becomes much less about the card itself and far more about being denied the result that they want. Who would better understand this mentality than one of their own? Some will offer even more ridiculous sums of money, but still the answer will be "no" until O'Leary gets his price.

If he says it won't be sold during his lifetime, he's clearly full of it. With the possible exception of his immediate family members, everything is for sale. He's spent his entire time in the spotlight saying as much. All you have to do is find his magic number. Certain people would sell their souls for the right price, with the prerequisite being that they had a soul to sell.

This was purchased by a group; there are endless possible scenarios in which the card comes back up for sale before the time they had initially envisioned.

[molenick]

In one way, yes, the hobby has been altered by people with a lot of money buying cards as investments. In another way, it will take a lot of trickle down for it to affect what most of the people on this site collect. The people buying cards for portfolios are not buying mid-grade Goudeys, or obscure type cards from the 1940s, or trying to complete a raw 1956 Topps set.

For some reason, it is modern and ultra modern cards they like as well as "gimmick" cards that are manufactured rarities. And to me, that's great....it's great that the highest recent sales are modern cards because I don't care about those cards and would prefer that the cards I collect do not get priced out of my range. Let them focus on that and keep away from Zeenuts. It's the same hobby only in the way that people who used to put Lincoln pennies in coin folders were in the same hobby as people buying 1804 silver dollars and 1913 Liberty Head nickels.

My hope is that the collecting part of the hobby can exist on a separate plane from whatever the portfolio people are doing. I guess for high profile cards of Ruth, Mantle, Wagner, Robinson, etc. there will be overlap, but most of us can't compete with the big hitters within the hobby for those cards anyway, let alone with billionaires from outside the hobby. In one sense, the major impact will be on the collectors of very high end vintage cards, not so much on the rest of us.

But who knows, really. I remember in the 1980s people were saying it was a bubble and that prices were not sustainable, that a 1952 Topps Mantle for $2500 was ridiculous. I wonder how long something can go on before it's not a bubble anymore?

[Hankphenom]

Do we have any kind of sales history for this card, or was this it's first appearance on the market? And although it's a "1/1" there must be a bunch of cards out there from the various sports with a similar theme of all-time great sigs, patches, etc., just waiting for the right two guys to bid them to the moon. Or is it the fact the Kobe is dead that pushed it to 8 figures? In that case, just wait a while and there will be others on like cards who will no longer be with us. Will that elevate those cards into this realm? If not, can someone tell me what exactly it is about this one that gives it such an exalted status as the most valuable card of all time?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Do we have any kind of sales history for this card, or was this it's first appearance on the market? And although it's a "1/1" there must be a bunch of cards out there from the various sports with a similar theme of all-time great sigs, patches, etc., just waiting for the right two guys to bid them to the moon. Or is it the fact the Kobe is dead that pushed it to 8 figures? In that case, just wait a while and there will be others on like cards who will no longer be with us. Will that elevate those cards into this realm? If not, can someone tell me what exactly it is about this one that gives it such an exalted status as the most valuable card of all time?

The perceived rarity of Bryant's signature has something to do with it, although he signed tons of stuff during his lifetime. Apparently the gold Jordan logo is from the 50th anniversary season, which makes it special in the eyes of some.

But look at their estimate compared to the sale price - I think this is a case of a buyer who doesn't really know the hobby very well being talked into buying it by his co-buyers.

[frankbmd]

What would Mr. Wonderful pay for a PSA 7?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

Wonder who the runner-up bidder was (?)

I believe it was Mark Cuban, but I hear Lori Greiner was in the running, but dropped out when she decided she couldn't figure out how to distribute this single card out to each new incarnation of Bed Bath and Beyond stores.

Brian

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I believe it was Mark Cuban, but I hear Lori Greiner was in the running, but dropped out when she decided she couldn't figure out how to distribute this single card out to each new incarnation of Bed Bath and Beyond stores.

Brian

Word is that Robert Herjavec didn't even bid, instead emailing the AH with the message "I like what you're doing, but I can't take this journey with you."

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by sreader3

2) The signatures are hard to decipher (I can barely tell if they run top to bottom or bottom to top);

Now that you mention it, I can't really tell. I'm almost certain the Jordan goes top to bottom, but I'm like 60-40 leaning toward Kobe goes from bottom to top.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

I don’t see the side where the hobby benefits from someone that can make $20 Billion business offers buys a basketball card for $13MM. Not only that, he has already come out and stated publicly that his card is just another asset class to add to his bitcoin, gold bars, S&P 500 portfolio, etc. A hobby benefits when hobbyists thrive, is that happening in any way here?

Probably. I don't know who the previous owner was, but if they're like me they're going to take their consignment payout and put most of it back into the hobby.

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by MR RAREBACK

I can’t believe anyone would pay more then 150k for this

If this thread started with the card selling for 150,000 I would still think it was crazy.
... And for that reason I’m out

[bcbgcbrcb]

My problem isn’t with this particular card, it’s with almost every card there that sold for 6-figures. Most all are rediculous. Which of those cards was 6-figures during 2019 and before?

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Probably. I don't know who the previous owner was, but if they're like me they're going to take their consignment payout and put most of it back into the hobby.

That's actually a better question. Who consigned this card and what are they going to do with all that cash?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

If this thread started with the card selling for 150,000 I would still think it was crazy.

Kind of puts it in perspective, doesn't it? I know the market speaks and all that, but I'm sorry, there's nothing about this card that should make it worth more than maybe a grand or two. It's a "tulips in Holland" artificially contrived rarity and that's all it ever will be no matter how much it goes for now or ever. Think of all the incredible stuff you could fill your man cave with, but instead you have this on your mantle, looking all cheesy and shiny and contrived, a monument to the worst kind of bad taste and lack of sophistication. OK, I guess I've protested too much now and I might as well confess: I BOUGHT IT!

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Would you rather have that or a Wagner with a mansion to put it in?

Hmmmm. A Hobson's choice.

Keeping a mansion clean would be a full time job which is not my preferred choice for a post retirement second career. I suppose I could hire some help to do the cleaning:



But I doubt that I could afford the lady's services given the property taxes a mansion would command.

Moreover I'd rather spend the property taxes I'd have to pay on more cards. Just not on either of those two. My tastes are shall we say more pedestrian.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

Imagine thinking you really killed it with that purchase.

I suspect the seller thought he really killed it.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

This economic disparity don't seen to bother a lot of people.

Doesn't bother me. But then again I'm not one for the politics of envy.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

All hail the great gd of capitalism.

Sneer all you want but capitalism a.k.a. a free market is the only economic system consistent with respect for individual liberty. The other variant requires subservience to the dictates of the State.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Do we have any kind of sales history for this card, or was this it's first appearance on the market? And although it's a "1/1" there must be a bunch of cards out there from the various sports with a similar theme of all-time great sigs, patches, etc., just waiting for the right two guys to bid them to the moon. Or is it the fact the Kobe is dead that pushed it to 8 figures? In that case, just wait a while and there will be others on like cards who will no longer be with us. Will that elevate those cards into this realm? If not, can someone tell me what exactly it is about this one that gives it such an exalted status as the most valuable card of all time?

This card sold for 25K in 2013 and 170K in 2015. A Steph Curry 1/1 had sold for 5.9 million, so this was sure to go for more than that. This is the only logoman card with Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, the two most popular basketball players in the hobby. With Kobe deceased, another will never be made.

Should it sell for more than a mid-grade t206 Wagner or a high grade 1952 Mantle? No, but this is a significant card for the hobby. Upper Deck Exquisite is the premier set for the years it was made. Jordan logoman the #1 card in each set. For a modern card, it doesn't get better than this.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by rats60

This card sold for 25K in 2013 and 170K in 2015. A Steph Curry 1/1 had sold for 5.9 million, so this was sure to go for more than that. This is the only logoman card with Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, the two most popular basketball players in the hobby. With Kobe deceased, another will never be made. Should it sell for more than a mid-grade t206 Wagner or a high grade 1952 Mantle? No, but this is a significant card for the hobby. Upper Deck Exquisite is the premier set for the years it was made. Jordan logoman the #1 card in each set. For a modern card, it doesn't get better than this.

Thanks for the info. So you're paying to complete the set for that year, and this card is the only way to do that, is that it? Otherwise, it just seems like any other insert or chase card, although a nice one, but not a must-have for any particular reason. It's hard for me to get past the fact that it was made to be unique and desirable, but why that should get it this kind of status still escapes me. Card companies can make a virtually unlimited number of different one-of-a-kind cards like this with big stars and all the other embellishments, are they all going to be competing to be the most valuable card in years to come?

[samosa4u]

All of this kinda' reminds me of when Vegas Dave, an outsider, purchased the Superfractor Mike Trout 1/1 for 400k back in 2018. It made headlines and everybody thought he was a complete moron. He sold it during the pandemic for 3.9M. The timing was perfect because after that sale Trout's career went to hell.

Here is the card today:

[Fred]

I wonder what really poor people think when they hear about stuff like this. I also I wonder what starving people in 3rd world countries would think about this if they heard about it.

Perhaps the woke community needs to get involved and ensure that collectors with greater resources are not allowed to have a nicer collection than a collector in a less fortunate circumstance and because of that, being made to have a feeling of low esteem because they can't have a nice collection of cards.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Every wealthy old white guy's bogeyman du jour, a guy who wants to tax the rich a tiny bit more. Oh, the horror!

You realize of course that taxes aren't voluntary. The State extracts them by force. That there is the problem. Yet that seems to bother you not at all so long as the State is taking somebody else's money.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Is there any chance the Political BS from both sides can go somewhere else???

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by brianclat11

So, three guys who have a boatload of money want to speculate with a bit of it on sports cards. They will not be impacted at all in their day to day lives if the card drops in value. However, my guess is that it will go for much more years from now. It is the GOAT of the sport along with one of the top players of all time who has passed away. It is a bit of contrived scarcity, but who cares. It brings more visibility to the hobby and is fun. If the .1% want to get in at the top of the hobby, I'm all for it. Believe me, this will have no bearing on the level of cards I purchase.

I think if resold it would go for pennies on the dollar at best. There is nothing stopping any of the card companies from making pretty much the exact same 1/1 card over and over. For me there is a WAY better card in the BST section now for $780 delivered.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by aquarian sports cards

is there any chance the political bs from both sides can go somewhere else???

+100

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Is there any chance the Political BS from both sides can go somewhere else???

I have had multiple DMs, emails, and text messages from others saying the type of responses on this thread are part of the reason they stopped posting and sharing their own pickups here on Net54.

To me that is unfortunate knowing the quality of those collections and the collective wisdom of those board members.

The politics, outright hatred for modern cards, etc. is comical at times but it's exhausting.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

While the politics can assuredly dissipate, the majority of people here seem to share a distaste for modern material. Completely understandable. As someone else pointed out in another thread, it's supposedly the same hobby, but it really isn't. For our end of things, its greatest redeeming quality is in being the gateway drug in bringing a few people over to vintage. We can be thankful for that aspect.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by sreader3

This thread has strayed pretty far from the merits of the purchase.

1) It is an unattractive card;
2) The signatures are hard to decipher (I can barely tell if they run top to bottom or bottom to top);
3) The card is not from a popular set;
4) Nobody has a nostalgic connection to this card (I’m not talking about the ATHLETES—of course people love Kobe and MJ).

So I don’t get the record price tag. But I am glad to see new people and new money migrate into the hobby. That is healthy. Maybe Mr. Wonderful will discover T206.

I'm not sure this is in your wheelhouse, given those points.

1). That is subjective. But logoman cards are the single most popular cards among ultra-modern basketball collectors, and many love how they look.

2). If you know the signatures of those two athletes, they are not hard to decipher, nor are they hard to tell which direction they run.

3). Tell me you have no clue about modern cards without telling me. Upper Deck Exquisite is the absolute peak set for popularity and desire of basketball cards EVER. It is considered the top of the basketball mountain.

4). See above. Every single high end modern basketball collector right now has nostalgia for UD Exquisite logomen. The nostalgia for Exquisite is what fuels the ultra modern Panini RPA craze with sets like Flawless and NT, and is the reason why Fanatics is now inserting logoman patches in Baseball sets. As the licenses migrate to Fanatics, they will continue to play to the basketball/football market's demand for these cards. Why? All because of the insane popularity and nostalgia for mid 2000s Exquisite.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

I have had multiple DMs, emails, and text messages from others saying the type of responses on this thread are part of the reason they stopped posting and sharing their own pickups here on Net54.

To me that is unfortunate knowing the quality of those collections and the collective wisdom of those board members.

The politics, outright hatred for modern cards, etc. is comical at times but it's exhausting.

They need to grow thicker skin or stay on the sidelines. I have read this thread many times, and to me, it hasn't gotten too politically out of hand. Yes, a few political innuendos come in at different times, but does anyone really want draconian rules where members have to be on eggshells about what they say? That said, there is no room for political discussions on the forum.

And, an infraction was given for a post that was over the top political.
.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Yeah, Mamdani is an obvious anti-Semite and has racist upbringing and Muslim brotherhood connections. He wants to defund the police and eliminate misdemeanors. Breath of fresh air? More like the stench of a Trojan Horse. There are so many reasons the should be outright rejected. Raising taxes is the last one.

How is this not a political post? I realize it was in response to a comment but this one crossed the line.
Infraction given.

[frankbmd]

Pokemon and Logoman are eerily similar.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

While the politics can assuredly dissipate, the majority of people here seem to share a distaste for modern material. Completely understandable. As someone else pointed out in another thread, it's supposedly the same hobby, but it really isn't. For our end of things, its greatest redeeming quality is in being the gateway drug in bringing a few people over to vintage. We can be thankful for that aspect.

There is a casual vintage board on Reddit with a rather steady influx of new collectors and collectors returning to the hobby that have either fulfilled their "modern" wants and/or they're tired of spending big money on busting ultra-modern packs/boxes/breaks/etc.

While anecdotal, there does seem to be a steady pipeline creating vintage collectors from the non-vintage entry point.

I imagine there's other corners of the internet experiencing the same thing.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

There is a casual vintage board on Reddit with a rather steady influx of new collectors and collectors returning to the hobby that have either fulfilled their "modern" wants and/or they're tired of spending big money on busting ultra-modern packs/boxes/breaks/etc.

While anecdotal, there does seem to be a steady pipeline creating vintage collectors from the non-vintage entry point.

I imagine there's other corners of the internet experiencing the same thing.

I've been saying for years that the process of creating new vintage collectors has never really changed. Everyone starts as a kid buying what's current, collecting their heroes etc. Let's say something crazy like 10 million kids each generation buy cards at some point. Some weren't really that interested, some decide they like girls better, some lose interest when they leave home etc, so let's say that only 10% keep collecting past the age of 18. That leaves 1 million collectors. Eventually some percentage of those become more interested in the history of their team, or the game, or even the hobby and the natural progression is to older stuff. If that number is 10% that's 100,000 new vintage collectors every generation.

My numbers may be completely nuts, who knows but that process I've seen a couple times now and as I age I expect to see it several more times over.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

They need to grow thicker skin or stay on the sidelines. I have read this thread many times, and to me, it hasn't gotten too politically out of hand. Yes, a few political innuendos come in at different times, but does anyone really want draconian rules where members have to be on eggshells about what they say? That said, there is no room for political discussions on the forum.

And, an infraction was given for a post that was over the top political.
.

To me it's not so much about thin skin, I included both sides in my post (even the side I happen to agree with) for a reason. If I wanted to read a bunch of political bickering and name calling I can literally go ANYWHERE else on the internet, Net54 is my respite from this. I hate to stop opening certain threads because they turn into the same drivel I see everywhere else I look.

Not the end of the world either way for me, I'm not going to pout and stop participating, just an observation.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Mic drop! "A fool and his money are soon parted..." Are those patches from GU unis? And what's "Logoman" mean?

Not sure if this was answered for you. But logoman is the official sport logo nickname. So in MLB, it's the silhouette of a hitter. In NBA its the silhouette of a layup. NFL doesn't have one.

I actually think this card is awesome. Not sure it's $13M awesome, but I knew it would clear $1M. IMO, basketball cards will eventually eclipse MLB cards for most expensive in the top 10 lists, top 20. It's worldwide popularity will reign supreme.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by todeen

Not sure if this was answered for you. But logoman is the official sport logo nickname. So in MLB, it's the silhouette of a hitter. In NBA its the silhouette of a layup. NFL doesn't have one.

I actually think this card is awesome. Not sure it's $13M awesome, but I knew it would clear $1M. IMO, basketball cards will eventually eclipse MLB cards for most expensive in the top 10 lists, top 20. It's worldwide popularity will reign supreme.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

If this card was MJ and LeBron (the two greatest of all time) and a PSA 10 I could see more of a case for it.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

I was watching a video on YouTube the other day that said the modern card market bubble is about to burst. I guess this buyer doesn't believe it.

People have been complaining like this for 4 years. But the modern market now relies on breakers. The amount of product they buy, hype, and churn through is absurd. If you're not on Twitter, X, to hear the complaints, and then watch people continue to buy crappy product, you're in for a treat. Facebook has a forum called Sportscard Nonsense. A lot of those posts are collectors opening boxes to get an auto of a 29 yo journeyman MiLB player who finally debuted. Or getting 3 autos of the same journeyman player from the same box.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

[Leon]

I agree.
I don't want to read politics on the forum either. At the same time I want to be careful not to over-moderate. Everyone should have a right to show their arse...then we know who they are.

As for the trio of buyers, we should just be glad they haven't ventured into vintage yet. I can't compete already but with more billionaire investors it won't make it easier. I hope they stay with the shiny stuff.

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

To me it's not so much about thin skin, I included both sides in my post (even the side I happen to agree with) for a reason. If I wanted to read a bunch of political bickering and name calling I can literally go ANYWHERE else on the internet, Net54 is my respite from this. I hate to stop opening certain threads because they turn into the same drivel I see everywhere else I look.

Not the end of the world either way for me, I'm not going to pout and stop participating, just an observation.