A New All Time Record for a Sports Card

[BioCRN]

It's the very notion of value that makes people bring cards to market to begin with. People see cardboard and think "Someone should look at this. It's worthless to me, but I hear this stuff is worth something." rather than "Hand me a trash bag."

We've seen stuff come to market from obscure places when the hobby is experiencing an upsurge in non-hobbyist interest.

A good amount of niche hobbies and collector bases suffer from people tossing things that they have no idea others are wanting.

It's a necessary evil at the very least because it's a notable driver of the vintage marketplace availability. They're not making this stuff anymore and a lot of it has been, and is, in the hands of people not in the hobby.

[Republicaninmass]

These guys can afford to take a 12 million dollar loss on a 13 million dollar card. Most people.cant. pack rippers can dream of leveraging the credit cards and taking second mortgages to find a card like this in a pack, then have some rich investor pool buy it. However, most collectors won't even sniff that world. There's an article this week in sport illustrated , a how to in sportscard investing . There's an article this week how Target trading cards sales will top 1 billion. Anyone who lived through any boom and bust cycles of anything can see a market top approaching. Coupled with the actual gambling of pack rips and lottery set breaks will all make (one day likely sooner than later) for an unkind mistress. So collect what you like, and dont over extend yourself. You won't even be disappointed!

A side note, dont selfishly leave the disposal to your significant other! We only rent these things.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

No, I flatly disagree. First of all you're conflating collectors with investors when there's an enormous chasm between their interests. Investors are on the side of scarcity since they'd like to see an increase in the value of their holdings. Meanwhile collectors are on the side of plenty and thus low prices since they want to be able to readily afford additions to their collections. Otherwise they're not "collectors" since collecting is all about precisely that.

I must be an anomaly because I'm a collector (and most definitely not an investor) who is on the side of scarcity and not on the side of plently. I say this because cards in the plentiful sets, such as T206, T205, T207, 1933 Goudey, don't much interest me. I am much more attracted to cards in scarce sets that hardly anyone collects, and such cards are often not all that expensive (other than the top HOFers). I don't know why it is, but I greatly enjoy having very scarce cards in my collection, and I don't think I'm the only Net54er who feels and collects this way.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

I must be an anomaly because I'm a collector (and most definitely not an investor) who is on the side of scarcity and not on the side of plently. I say this because cards in the plentiful sets, such as T206, T205, T207, 1933 Goudey, don't much interest me. I am much more attracted to cards in scarce sets that hardly anyone collects, and such cards are often not all that expensive (other than the top HOFers). I don't know why it is, but I greatly enjoy having very scarce cards in my collection, and I don't think I'm the only Net54er who feels and collects this way.

I agree. The boring cards are the ones everyone else has.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by calvindog

How can you suggest that collectors are not also investors?

Easily! The two subsets of individuals have entirely different interests. Collectors want reasonable prices so that they can continue to accumulate while investors want prices to increase so that they can make a profit. The exception would of course be those individuals who have more than just a touch of schizophrenia. That of course may be more common these days than it has been historically.

Originally Posted by calvindog

I've been a baseball card collector since I was 4-5 years old. I collected through my childhood, spending peanuts on the cards until I got an adult job, then a career, and began spending more and more discretionary income on the cards I loved. I never once bought a card for an investment purpose. I never once considered the cards I bought to be part of my net worth, or an asset. They were purchased in my mind, with the same money I'd use for recreational purposes. The money was spent, the fun was had, and that was it. And I steadily spent money on cards, month after month, the amounts increasing as my income increased.

Yes, that sounds like a collector to me.

Originally Posted by calvindog

Now maybe some collectors never spent a large amount of their income over time on cards and were capable of exercising some self-control, limiting their collections to a rounding error on their net worth.

The usage of the words "collector" and "self-control" constitutes an oxymoron (in most cases anyway). I see the collecting compulsion as an addiction like almost all others except that it doesn't wreck your health. If anything it's an addiction that extends one's life because you need to live long enough to get that card which will then of course become another, and another! So how can you die?

Originally Posted by calvindog

...and unless you're a communist, socialist or an idiot, the value of our collections matter to us.

I'm absolutely none of those things but the value I get from my collection is purely psychic, i.e. delight, satisfaction, comfort. I'm not driven to adding up the dollars. Why should I be? I don't anticipate getting those dollars and if I do it'll probably be too late to spend them foolishly. I can see myself being like Angelo Savelli whose only question when approaching his final days was whether his collection was safe and intact.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I'm absolutely none of those things but the value I get from my collection is purely psychic, i.e. delight, satisfaction, comfort. I'm not driven to adding up the dollars. Why should I be? I don't anticipate getting those dollars and if I do it'll probably be too late to spend them foolishly. I can see myself being like Angelo Savelli whose only question when approaching his final days was whether his collection was safe and intact.

Here's something to think about though. I mean, not just a quick consideration and reply, but maybe a day or two of thoughtful introspection. Would you feel better knowing your collection does have value, that it is something you can post about in places like here, and have others agree, your collection is great, if not awesome? The things you collect are appreciated and admired by many, many people of like mind and interests?

Or would you feel just as good about your collection if you were spending the same amount of money collecting tooth brushes, because the handles were colorful and you liked to look at them, and hold them up to light? The money you spent on them would be gone, your collection would hold no value, and would surely be dumpster bound after your earthly demise. The reason they would hold no value is simple - nobody else values them.

I find satisfaction in knowing my collection has some degree of significance, and that there are other people who likewise see real value in it. Otherwise I might as well be collecting the walnuts that fall from my trees.

[Kutcher55]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I find satisfaction in knowing my collection has some degree of significance, and that there are other people who likewise see real value in it. Otherwise I might as well be collecting the walnuts that fall from my trees.

100% yes!

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

It's the very notion of value that makes people bring cards to market to begin with. People see cardboard and think "Someone should look at this. It's worthless to me, but I hear this stuff is worth something." rather than "Hand me a trash bag."

We've seen stuff come to market from obscure places when the hobby is experiencing an upsurge in non-hobbyist interest.

A good amount of niche hobbies and collector bases suffer from people tossing things that they have no idea others are wanting.

It's a necessary evil at the very least because it's a notable driver of the vintage marketplace availability. They're not making this stuff anymore and a lot of it has been, and is, in the hands of people not in the hobby.

While you've not exactly been a friendly poster up till now, that point I'll concede.

Originally Posted by Mark17

Here's something to think about though. I mean, not just a quick consideration and reply, but maybe a day or two of thoughtful introspection. Would you feel better knowing your collection does have value, that it is something you can post about in places like here, and have others agree, your collection is great, if not awesome? The things you collect are appreciated and admired by many, many people of like mind and interests?

Or would you feel just as good about your collection if you were spending the same amount of money collecting tooth brushes, because the handles were colorful and you liked to look at them, and hold them up to light? The money you spent on them would be gone, your collection would hold no value, and would surely be dumpster bound after your earthly demise. The reason they would hold no value is simple - nobody else values them.

Yes. Clearly the former or I wouldn't be spending so much time posting words and pictures on these boards.

[OhioLawyerF5]

How one person collects, and the things about collecting that they get joy from is entirely personal. And to suggest your way is "true" collecting, and their way isn't is the height of arrogance. A collector who enjoys chasing rare/scarce items is just as much a collector as someone who wants to hoard a bunch of plentiful and cheap items. Likewise, a collector who takes joy from having a collection that other people want and would pay a lot of money for is just as much a collector as someone who doesn't care one bit about the value of their collection, or takes all their joy from staring at their cards. There is nothing more annoying than people who think that collecting and investing are mutually exclusive. Those are just people who are incapable of thinking extrospectively. They can't comprehend how others can feel differently than them.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

How one person collects, and the things about collecting that they get joy from is entirely personal.

Very true. I've found that only a small subset of people in the hobby, even those who like the exact same cards as I do, are in it for the exact same reasons. With people like this shark tank guy getting into it (who may not even like sports and possibly didn't even have cards as a kid), that number gets even smaller...

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I'm not sure this is in your wheelhouse, given those points.

1). That is subjective. But logoman cards are the single most popular cards among ultra-modern basketball collectors, and many love how they look.

2). If you know the signatures of those two athletes, they are not hard to decipher, nor are they hard to tell which direction they run.

3). Tell me you have no clue about modern cards without telling me. Upper Deck Exquisite is the absolute peak set for popularity and desire of basketball cards EVER. It is considered the top of the basketball mountain.

4). See above. Every single high end modern basketball collector right now has nostalgia for UD Exquisite logomen. The nostalgia for Exquisite is what fuels the ultra modern Panini RPA craze with sets like Flawless and NT, and is the reason why Fanatics is now inserting logoman patches in Baseball sets. As the licenses migrate to Fanatics, they will continue to play to the basketball/football market's demand for these cards. Why? All because of the insane popularity and nostalgia for mid 2000s Exquisite.

Thanks for your response. These are fair points. Here is my reply:

1) In my opinion, it is an ugly card. Let me cite the T206 Lajoie (With Bat) for comparison.
2) In my opinion, it is hard to decipher the signatures. Let me cite Harmon Killebrew's signature for comparison.
3 & 4) I don't believe that "UD Exquisite logomen" has achieved status in the hobby anywhere near N172, T206, 1933 Goudey or 1952 Topps. Or any other Topps set for that matter. I have never heard of it until you mentioned it. But I don't rule-out that "UD Exquisite logomen" might be more popular. Let's take a poll!

And I certainly do not think that collecting and investing are mutually exclusive!

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Thanks for your response. These are fair points. Here is my reply:

1) In my opinion, it is an ugly card. Let me cite the T206 Lajoie (With Bat) for comparison.
2) In my opinion, it is hard to decipher the signatures. Let me cite Harmon Killebrew's signature for comparison.
3 & 4) I don't believe that "UD Exquisite logomen" has achieved status in the hobby anywhere near N172, T206, 1933 Goudey or 1952 Topps. Or any other Topps set for that matter. I have never heard of it until you mentioned it. But I don't rule-out that "UD Exquisite logomen" might be more popular. Let's take a poll!

And I certainly do not think that collecting and investing are mutually exclusive!

Yeah, I don't think any of us are the intended market for this card. High-end modern basketball collectors are a wild bunch.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm all for someone spending 13M on a dopey basketball card because it ultimately increases the value of my collection -- and unless you're a communist, socialist or an idiot, the value of our collections matter to us.

You forgot the True Collector…they don’t care. As they loudly proclaim whenever they can. Like vegans guilting us over bacon.

[babraham]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

You forgot the True Collector…they don’t care. As they loudly proclaim whenever they can. Like vegans guilting us over bacon.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

You forgot the True Collector…they don’t care. As they loudly proclaim whenever they can. Like vegans guilting us over bacon.

"True Collector"? Well I suppose you could label those whose sole focus is on collecting and not transacting "true collectors" but why? I don't see the point in cavalierly labelling others over minor differences in opinion but I guess that you're among those who believe otherwise. Interesting too that you thought a snide jibe was somehow appropriate here.

But I'm tired of mincing words. Since you're so eager to label others, I'll just label you with your very own words here:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman/boxingcardman

Perhaps obnoxious is just your default setting, or maybe you just get off on flame wars. Either way, get a life.... your commentary is tiresome and has worn out its welcome, so move on somewhere else and poison some other board. I am done wasting my time on you, so fire away, tough guy, I won't bother to respond. I don't feed trolls.

Charming.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

The SGC 9.5 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle has been topped.

This sold last night at Heritage.

Getting back to the actual card though, it looks pack fresh to me. Why do you think PSA might have downgraded it to a 6?



P.S.: As a card I don't think it's very pretty.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

That was one of my first thoughts upon seeing the card. There has to be a pretty obvious issue which isn't apparent unless you have the card in hand. We've certainly seen it time and again where scanners don't pick up various flaws. Regardless of how anyone feels about the subjectivity of TPG grading, proclaiming a modern card a 6 means something rather significant is going on. I would also imagine that any auction house responsible for selling it would have tried their best for a reexamination and a stronger grade, but here it is in a 6 holder. Was anything mentioned in the description?

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Getting back to the actual card though, it looks pack fresh to me. Why do you think PSA might have downgraded it to a 6?



P.S.: As a card I don't think it's very pretty.

These cards are very thick. It is definitely something to do with the edges. You would use a 35 pt top-loader or one-touch for a normal card. You would use a 130 pt case for this card.

[Directly]

Any item sold for crazy prices and brings National press exposure can't hurt AH's future record sales. Is there some Transparently for bidders besides the description and prices .

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I agree. The boring cards are the ones everyone else has.

+1. The primary reason I have never been drawn to or impressed by high grade postwar Topps and Bowman cards. I don't dislike them (unlike the shiny stuff), they just don't do anything for me.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Getting back to the actual card though, it looks pack fresh to me. Why do you think PSA might have downgraded it to a 6?



P.S.: As a card I don't think it's very pretty.

Exquisite cards are known to be condition sensitive and difficult to get high grades on. Looking at the number, it was graded recently. It may have been an 8 if it was graded when it was first pulled and now it is a 6 under PSA's new standards.

[Snapolit1]

I remember when the stock market crashed in 2008, The NY Times ran a piece in its business section about how every ups driver, hair cutter, and taxi driver in America was checking their stock holdings in real time, because the market was roaring ahead and everyone and his brother was getting rich. Everyone was giddy. I remember thinking a few months later that if that wasn’t the bell ringing on irrational exuberance, what was. I should have sold the day that I saw that article.

Wonder if someday we look back on this purchase by these three goons … eh, guys …. and shake our head and say “yeah, things got really stupid in 2025….. Was pretty obvious ….”

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I remember when the stock market crashed in 2008, The NY Times ran a piece in its business section about how every ups driver, hair cutter, and taxi driver in America was checking their stock holdings in real time, because the market was roaring ahead and everyone and his brother was getting rich. Everyone was giddy. I remember thinking a few months later that if that wasn’t the bell ringing on irrational exuberance, what was. I should have sold the day that I saw article appeared.

Wonder if someday we look back on this purchase by these three goons … eh, guys …. and shake our head and say “yeah, things got really stupid in 2025….. Was pretty obvious ….”

I remember starting law school in the late 80s and befriending some MBA students -- and Black Monday occurred just as they were starting the beginning of their business education. They figured their futures were done and that there would be no coming back from that crash. There's no guarantee of where the markets in financials and baseball cards will go in the future, but over the past 50 years, the S & P is up 7.7% annualized after being adjusted for inflation. Over the long term I suspect we'll be ok with our card values, as long as you're diversified and not stocking up on the modern equivalent of tulips.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Over the long term I suspect we'll be ok with our card values, as long as you're diversified and not stocking up on the modern equivalent of tulips.

In general, I think you’re right, although I would add a few caveats:

1) you didn’t buy most (or all) of your stuff at the top
2) you don’t have a pressing need to sell in the near future after a hypothetical crash occurs
3) we don’t become the stamp world

The stamp parallels, while a bit frightening, have always seemed like a very unlikely outcome to me. But not something that can be completely ignored.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by raulus

In general, I think you’re right, although I would add a few caveats:

1) you didn’t buy most (or all) of your stuff at the top
2) you don’t have a pressing need to sell in the near future after a hypothetical crash occurs
3) we don’t become the stamp world

The stamp parallels, while a bit frightening, have always seemed like a very unlikely outcome to me. But not something that can be completely ignored.

Stamp collecting was huge in the 60s and 70s; but never reached the level as sports cards, for obvious reasons. And my point is, unless a crash/correction occurs and you need to sell the long term outlook should be ok.

[Exhibitman]

Stamp collecting is having somewhat of a comeback in the lower financial end.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by raulus

3) we don’t become the stamp world

The stamp parallels, while a bit frightening, have always seemed like a very unlikely outcome to me. But not something that can be completely ignored.

That possibility has also crossed my mind. It seems that interest in stamp collecting evaporated as baby boomers found other alternatives that had more meaning to them, e.g. bubble gum cards, comics, the toys they remembered from their formative years, even gold & silver coins since many remembered having silver coins in their pockets once upon a time.

I'm therefore interested in why you think such a quantum change in collecting interests is unlikely. From all reports, things have changed in the schoolyard and kids aren't collecting the same ways as were kids fifty+ years ago. Not only do they not collect the same kind of cards, their mindset behind collecting is now very different.

[OhioLawyerF5]

There are far fewer fans of the USPS to fuel a stamp collecting hobby than there are fans of sports. I'm not concerned that sports are going away anytime soon.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

That possibility has also crossed my mind. It seems that interest in stamp collecting evaporated as baby boomers found other alternatives that had more meaning to them, e.g. bubble gum cards, comics, the toys they remembered from their formative years, even gold & silver coins since many remembered having silver coins in their pockets once upon a time.

I'm therefore interested in why you think such a quantum change in collecting interests is unlikely. From all reports, things have changed in the schoolyard and kids aren't collecting the same ways as were kids fifty+ years ago. Not only do they not collect the same kind of cards, their mindset behind collecting is now very different.

It's a good question, and my knowledge of the stamp world is superficial at best, which is why I can't answer with extreme confidence.

But my understanding is that a big part of the issue with the stamp world is that eBay exposed the fact that there was a lot more material out there than previously thought. Obviously eBay did not have a negative impact on our world, at least it hasn't caused values to crater.

Separately, it sounds like part of the challenge is also that governments went nuts with flooding the market with stamps. I suppose in some ways this is analogous to the junk wax era in our world. Luckily, the flooding of the cardboard market in the modern era didn't negatively impact values for vintage cardboard.

As with any collecting endeavor, the biggest issue is whether the next generation steps up and buys the stuff when generations turn over. And I guess we can all question whether that's a problem for us here. Certainly based on reports, it sounds like plenty of youngsters are showing up at card shows and are collecting cardboard. So perhaps there is room for optimism on this score.

I do think that the long-term viability of baseball as a sport could also be a factor. While baseball is not nearly as popular relative to other sports as it was 70 years ago, and it seems like there are always hints that it's waning in popularity, the business overall seems to keep humming along just fine. We'll see whether the Star Trek prediction about the demise of baseball ends up coming true.

[Balticfox]

I keep remembering the episode where Spock described a 1962 Topps Roger Maris card as "priceless".



That is a card though I'd like to add to my own collection at some point.

[molenick]

I also remember that episode but it was not from the original series, so no Spock. It was a Next Generation episode called "The Most Toys". The card makes its appearance at roughly 4:00 into this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80HEercI8gM

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Maybe but it brings big publicity to our hobby… This is gonna be all over media tomorrow on your newsfeed. My point is this indirectly is in increasing the value of your collection....

But you (or more specifically I) can only realize the "value" of our collections by selling! Meanwhile I'm not nearly finished with adding to my collection. And that could (more probably will) cost me more now.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

But you (or more specifically I) can only realize the "value" of our collections by selling! Meanwhile I'm not nearly finished with adding to my collection. And that could (more probably will) cost me more now.

No doubt about it!

[theshowandme]

They just bought another $10,000,000 card

[Leon]

It's a 1 of 1. What are there, like 10,000 1 of 1s?


The sky is the limit.

Originally Posted by theshowandme

They just bought another $10,000,000 card

[calvindog]

I have like ten Cobb 1/1s which are all available for 50% of that Logoman’s price of $10M. Come one, come all, just tell me which one you’d like. Free shipping.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I have like ten Cobb 1/1s which are all available for 50% of that Logoman’s price of $10M. Come one, come all, just tell me which one you’d like. Free shipping.

That's ESUS shipping though, right?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

They just bought another $10,000,000 card

Who is They? The Shark Tank guy?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Leon

It's a 1 of 1. What are there, like 10,000 1 of 1s?


The sky is the limit.

There are only 6 years of Exquisite Basketball that are NBA licensed, 03/04 through 08/09. So for Jordan collectors only 6. That is why they are selling so high.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

That's ESUS shipping though, right?

I am not sure what ESUS is, but I am pretty sure that the card will be sent in a self addressed stamped envelope, if stamp is sent with payment.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I am not sure what ESUS is, but I am pretty that the card will be sent in a self addressed stamped envelope, if stamp is sent with payment.

I’m sorry, we don’t ship to Canada. 48 states only.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Who is They? The Shark Tank guy?

There’s a whole thread on it

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=364190

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

There’s a whole thread on it

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=364190

That's the thread we're on right now....

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

There’s a whole thread on it

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=364190

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

That's the thread we're on right now....

lol