Judge or Raleigh for MVP?

[Shoeless Moe]

Raleigh.

Judge plays in the 3rd ranked easiest park to hit Home Runs. And yes he hits plenty to RF. Seattle's field isn't even in the Top 10.

[Brent G.]

Cal — he is THE individual story of the baseball season for a playoff team. Is there Judge and Yankee fatigue — sure, because no matter what they do in the regular season and no matter how many billions they spend, they just keep choking when it matters most ... I mean that guy SUCKS when it's all on the line. There are show ponies and there are thoroughbreds — Judge has proven to be the former through 10 years.

[packs]

I don't see how you can be so dazzled by home runs. Judge leads the league in every other offensive stat and put up a 215 OPS+. That's a Ted Williams-level season.

[gunboat82]

Still Judge for me.

His OPS is nearly 200 points higher than Raleigh's.

His OBP is nearly 100 points higher than Raleigh's, and 58 points higher than the next-highest player in MLB.

He put up Bonds-like numbers, but without the steroid suspicion.

I suspect Raleigh will get 1st-place votes because he's a catcher and a great story, but Judge was simply dominant offensively. He was so far above his peers that Raleigh couldn't catch him in either bWAR or fWAR even with the position adjustment for catchers and Judge's below-average defense.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't see how you can be so dazzled by home runs. Judge leads the league in every other offensive stat and put up a 215 OPS+. That's a Ted Williams-level season.

Hmm, Ted's best season was likely 1941 when he hit over .400 and led the league in HRs. He did not win the MVP-- that went to Dimaggio. A never before 56 game hit-streak no doubt helped Joe, but so did the fact that he was a better fielder.

Raleigh did something never done before by a catcher-- the 60 Home runs-- and the 125 RBis are noteworthy too. He played almost 30% more games in the field than Judge-- 121 to 95-- at a much, much more demanding position that also required him to usually call pitches and field general the infield, and played defensively at least as well. FWIW, he even stole more bases than Judge.

I'd give it to Cal.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Hmm, Ted's best season was likely 1941 when he hit over .400 and led the league in HRs. He did not win the MVP-- that went to Dimaggio. A never before 56 game hit-streak no doubt helped Joe, but so did the fact that he was a better fielder.

Raleigh did something never done before by a catcher-- the 60 Home runs-- and the 125 RBis are noteworthy too. He played almost 30% more games in the field than Judge-- 121 to 95-- at a much, much more demanding position that also required him to usually call pitches and field general the infield, and played defensively at least as well. FWIW, he even stole more bases than Judge.

I'd give it to Cal.

Fun tidbit though... Judge would have to go 0 for his next 184 to match Cal's batting average this year.

[packs]

Ted’s best season was 1946 when he led the league in runs, walks, batting average, OPS, OPS+, and total bases but not home runs or RBI’s. He won MVP with an OPS+ of 215.

Sound familiar?

Judge also became only the fourth player and really only the second player to Babe Ruth to have four 50 homer seasons this year. He is the MVP.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by packs

Ted’s best season was 1946 when he led the league in runs, walks, batting average, OPS, OPS+, and total bases but not home runs or RBI’s. He won MVP with an OPS+ of 215.

Sound familiar?

Judge also became only the fourth player and really only the second player to Babe Ruth to have four 50 homer seasons this year. He is the MVP.

Well I see you don’t really offer an argument as to why Teddy Ballgame failed to win the MVP in 1941. I believe the answer is because the voters believed someone else had a more special season, and did something that had not been done before that year.

As for Ted’s best season, in 1941 he topped the A.L. in every category you just listed for 1946 except total bases, PLUS HRs AND B.A. (he did not win B.A. in 1946), in addition to reaching the magical .400 mark. He also had better OPS, OPS+ and Offensive War in 1941 than he did in 1946. So I cannot agree that ‘46 was better than ‘41 where again he did not win. The reason he won the MVP in 1946? In large part because no one else stood out as having done something unprecedented that season to top Ted's raw numbers. Unlike this year, when a catcher hit more HRs than ever before (by 7) and reached the esteemed 60 total HR mark.

As for Judge hitting 50 Hrs for the fourth time, good for him, but MVP is about this season only, so your reference is of marginal value at most.

Vote Raleigh.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

Fun tidbit though... Judge would have to go 0 for his next 184 to match Cal's batting average this year.

...and he just might in the Playoffs.

Judge has the old Kershaw reputation in the Post Season.
Can't hit, .205 in 58 games!!! And we saw his lovely defense in the 5th inning of WS Game 5.

Let's see if he turns it around or continues his futility.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

...and he just might in the Playoffs.

Judge has the old Kershaw reputation in the Post Season.
Can't hit, .205 in 58 games!!! And we saw his lovely defense in the 5th inning of WS Game 5.

Let's see if he turns it around or continues his futility.

I'm hoping Judge has a great post season. I felt bad for him when he dropped the fly ball last year. He doesn't deserve to be known for that.

[TUM301]

Raleigh is the MVP for me. Good arguments on both sides, and yes had checked out Ted’s 1941 stats about 2 weeks ago. Judge/Yankee fatigue might be coming into play but 60 bombs and leading the league in RBI for a division winning team from behind the plate 120 times, unheard of. In MLB History I think only 3 or 4 catchers had previously hit more than 40 HR’s. Here in Sox nation getting ready for Sox-Yanks in about 1 hour, should be as good as ever.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Raleigh.

Judge plays in the 3rd ranked easiest park to hit Home Runs. And yes he hits plenty to RF. Seattle's field isn't even in the Top 10.

Right handed hitter in Yankee Stadium is not the easiest thing in the world. There's a reason why they're always looking for left handed pull hitters in that park. He certainly didn't get many opposite field HR's, down the right field line.

Also, Judges are usually no-doubters in any park.

Here's a couple graphics from Statcast that say Raleigh has been luckier with his HR's then Judge. Check out the "No-Doubters" percentages.

Also interesting the Park Specific adjusted numbers for Yankee Stadium and Seattle between them which is pretty close.

All that said, I'd be ok with either winning. Catcher is a brutal position, and Raleigh is no slouch in that area, even if his defensive analytics are down this year.