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#1
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
Guys, |
#2
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Jason L
is deserving...look at the stats, he was a great 3B, although with no post-season experience (he was one of my Cubbies, after all)... |
#3
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: davidcycleback
I think order of induction means very little. |
#4
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Kevin Cummings
I'm not sure that either Santo or Hodges truly belong among the HOF greats. I also think saying Ron Santo was Brooks Robinson's equal is a bit of a stretch (the former had 5 Gold Gloves and the latter 16). If I had to choose between those two, though, I'd pick Santo. |
#5
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: howard
I would put in Santo this year because he was the best 3rd baseman in the NL between Mathews and Schmidt. He might have been the best in the majors if you don't count Killebrew and Allen as 3rd basemen (I'm not sure how much they played there) and if you agree that he was better overall than Brooks Robinson. I've never heard about Schmidt's campaign against him. Anyone have any details? |
#6
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
David, |
#7
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: CN
I think Gil Hodges definitely deserves to go in before Santo. He was a multiple all-star player on one of the great teams in history and was I believe a multiple gold glover. I don't have his stats available but in the 50's when he played if you hit in the high 20's in home runs and high 90's in RBI's on a consistent basis and was a great fielder you have to be at least considered as well as playing in several World Series. The thing that I think really puts Hodges ahead of Santo is that he managed a team to one of the greatest upsets in 1969. Unfortunately he died too young at 48 years old. Hodges and Santo statwise are very similiar but if you had to pick one for the HOF I think Hodges intangibles as a leader puts him ahead. CN |
#8
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: howard
Both Santo and Hodges were great fielders and multiple GG winners. But GG voting has been notoriously poor since the inception of the award and as such is not really a good barometer of defensive skill. Certain players, including Brooks Robinson, Ozzie Smith and Jim Kaat were "automatically" given the award year after year. They certainly were great defensively but there are plenty of folks who will tell you that Clete Boyer should have won a GG or two over Robinson and in 1971 Graig Nettles lost the award to Robinson despite having one of the all time great fielding seasons. |
#9
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: dennis
i think both should be in the hall of fame. and not for the reasons of all the guys we name here and why are they in so why not santo or hodges. but consider these facts, hodges was the all-star 1st baseman of the national league from 1949-57. also, he held the nl record for hitting over 20+ homers for 11 consecutive years. and, at one time he was the 2nd leading hr hitter in nl history behind mel ott. lastly the dodgers of his era were perhaps the greatest team in the history of the nl. now for ron santo,from 1961-1973 he performed at the skill level of any 3rd baseman in the hall of fame.he was the nl all star 3rd baseman every year from 1963 thru 1973 except for 1 year. he also happened to have diabetes which ,i believe led to his rapid decline in production which hastened his early retirement.w/o the disease he probably hangs around 3 or 4 more years and pads his stats.imo, growing up (a sox fan) in chicago during the 1960's, i believed santo to be a much better player than billy williams or the 1960's version of ernie banks, without a doubt. |
#10
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Chris Counts
Who would you rather have on your team? A .270-hitting first baseman with good power, or one of the greatest third basemen ever. There are dozens of guys who did what Hodges did, only better. But how many third basemen could hit for power, draw walks and play great third base? I'd take Santo over Brooks Robinson any day, and I love Brooks. HOF third basemen George Kell and Fred Lindstrom aren't even in Santo's league. And there are far fewer third basemen in the HOF than any other position. While many collectors rant about grading companies and auction houses, I prefer to rant about the HOF. Isn't tomorrow the big day? Hopefully, the Veterans' Committee will give me something to cheer about this year. C'mon Minnie! |
#11
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Dave Hornish
I have thought for years both should be in. Maybe this is the year..... |
#12
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
Dave, |
#13
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: CN
It would be nice for Gil to get in while his wife Joan Hodges is still alive. She has done a lot for local charities since her husband died in 1972.CN |
#14
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Pcelli60
Hodges first because hes been deserving longer..Santo also needs to go. |
#15
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Ken McMillan
Santo needs to be in the Hall Of Fame. In addition to being the best third baseman of his era, he is an awesome person. He is always working to help JDRF (juvenile diabetes), and has been a trooper through all of his medical problems. He is also a champion for his team and he lives and dies with the cubs. Baseball has missed the boat by not having Ronnie in the hall. I personally know Ron and really do not understand what the vetrins committee is looking for in not electing Ron. |
#16
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Bob
Hodges, Santo and Oliva should all be in. |
#17
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
To the original question.... no. |
#18
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
Guys, |
#19
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Dave Hornish
I think Hodges probably lost a year or maybe a year and a half to World War 2, so he might have nailed 400 homers without military service. I think he compares favorably to Ralph Kiner but also to Dale Murphy so is obviously (if not already apparent) a borderline candidate. Hodges was close to Kiner for a number of years' in the 70's HOF voting and well ahead of some other guys who got in. He was good to great in the field from what I have heard and won the Series with the Mets; two almost plusses. It's seems like he's one or two seasons away in many ways: 1 more World Series, one more 30 HR season, 1 more season over 100 RBI and I think he's in years ago. So again, the lost time to the war should be factored in. I think the lifetime BA works against him too. And I think there is a better argument for Hodges than Santo (whom I also feel should be in). |
#20
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Paul
I think it's interesting that Hodges was waaaaaay ahead of Snider in the voting when they were first on the ballot. Then Snider overtook Hodges and within a few more years was elected. I don't know how you explain that. For what it's worth, I do think Snider is more worthy than Hodges, so the voters eventually got it right. |
#21
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
Paul, |
#22
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: George Dreher
I would have to give the nod to Hodges because of his managerial career in addition to his playing career. Without the managing, he doesn't deserve to be inducted. |
#23
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
George, |
#24
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: howard
...Kiner was a far better hitter than Hodges. |
#25
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: CN
Joe Torre is an interesting case. As a player he just falls short and as a manager he was a losing manager until he got to the high payroll Yankees. I wonder how he would have fared with the 1980,s Yankees. CN |
#26
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Darren
yes. |
#27
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
CN, |
#28
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Dave Snyder
.......either should go in. Maybe in the "Hall of Better Than Average, Solid Ball Players" but not the Hall of Fame. There are literally people in the HOF that have double the numbers these guys do - hits, hr's, rbi, and the list goes on and on. Santo and Hodges were undeniably two fantastic ball players, but they were not among the GREATEST of all time. I disgaree with several people who have been voted in in recent years....and if the Mendoza line keeps dropping, pretty soon you'll see all the players on the fence get in, like: |
#29
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Mike
How about Ken Boyer. Boyer and Santo very close. But I think Boyer should go before Santo. |
#30
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
Mike, |
#31
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Mike
Peter, |
#32
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Chris Counts
I do appreciate the support for Ken Boyer. I believe he was as good a player as Santo. He hurt his back bad just a year after his '64 MVP, which curtailed his career by a few years. I'm not sure his ballpark was a hitter-friendly as Wrigley Field, but he didn't play his peak years in the late 60s, when batting averages reached their lowest pre-WWI point. Ken Boyer, like Ron Santo, is a highly underappreciated player. And they both play third base, arguably the hardest to fill position ... |
#33
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: J Levine
It was not the war that sunk Hodges chances it was playing in the Los Angeles Coliseium and batting right handed. After the Dodgers moved to Los Angeles they played in this area and the field that Hodges hit most of his homeruns/doubles to in Ebbets became a cavern...right center and right field were over 400 feet dropping off to 390 and then a steep drop off down the line...Hodges was a pull hitter and in Brooklyn hit most of his HRs to right center...in Los Angeles everything dropped for him including hits, hrs, doubles, and eventually games...put him in! |
#34
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Frank Evanov
It took Joe DiMaggio 7 years to be inducted, |
#35
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
Frank, |
#36
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: dennis
just think....if there never was a veterens commitee,we would never have a thread like this. and the hall of fame would be nenamed the baseball HALL OF GREATS. |
#37
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Frank Evanov
Frank, |
#38
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
Frank, |
#39
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Chris Counts
Peter, I agree that Santo is better than Lindstrom and Kell. It's not even close. I'd take Ken Boyer over those two guys as well. Jimmy Collins must have been a pretty good player for Connie Mack to put him on his all-time team in '51, but even if he was Brooks with the glove, I'd still take Santo over him. But I wouldn't put him above Home Run Baker. His offensive numbers in the Dead Ball Era were amazing. I'd certainly consider John McGraw on the list as well, but like Collins, he's hard to judge since his best years are in the 19th century during a live ball era. By the way, didn't McGraw have the highest average ever for the hot corner? So even by conservative standards, Santo is clearly a Top Ten third baseman in my estimation. Isn't that good enough for Cooperstown? What other position has fewer representatives in the HOF? None are even close. Third base, for better or worse, is the hardest position on the field to fill, even tougher than catcher. Look at how many decades some teams like the Cubs, the Dodgers (until Ron Cy came along) and the Mets (remember Hubie Brooks?) searched for a third baseman ... |
#40
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Steve M.
No. |
#41
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
Chris, |
#42
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Josh Adams
I see the Cubs Kool-Aid is being served in abundance today! After all, Opening Day is Monday. |
#43
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Chris Counts
Peter, |
#44
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Brian
Bill James offers than Ron Santo is the best eligible player not in the HOF. I agree. |
#45
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Chris Counts
Josh, |
#46
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
Guys, |
#47
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Frank Evanov
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The facts are that in 15 years of voting by the BBWAA, Santo never even came close to election, achieving a total over 40% just once [43% in 1998.] The Veterans Committe has also deemed him unworthy of Hall status. |
#48
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: peter chao
Frank, |
#49
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Frank Evanov
I guess the writers who didn't vote them in over a 15 year period didn't know what they were doing either. |
#50
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O/T, Slightly, Should Hodges Go In HoF Ahead of Santo
Posted By: Chris Counts
The credibility of the Hall of Fame has long been compromised by the cronyism and politics of its voters. Just because someone was a great player or a well-known sportswriter doesn't mean they understand the complexities of baseball history ... |
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