Open letter to STAT and Christopher Morales - Page 2

Archive · #51 02-03-2008, 10:20 AM

Posted By: DJMeyer is "sonnysports". We have talked about him on the board before. Handwritten flyers with all the names you could possibly want. Does STAT and Morales even know about this thread? DJ edit: P.S Micah, Leon's e-mail is listed at the top of the thread of the site where you can contact the moderator.

Archive · #52 02-03-2008, 10:30 AM

Posted By: Jodi BirkholmI would be very wary of any Cobb-signed Fleers. I have certainly never seen a legitimate example. I have seen two Hornsbys and a really nice Vance, however. Has anyone on this forum encountered an authentic Fleer Cobb? I don't know the exact release date of the 1960 Fleer set, but, considering Cobb likely had +/- one year to sign these, chances are pretty slim. Judging by the players who I HAVE often encountered on the 1960's Fleer issues, these signed sets were not popularly collected until the very late 1960's.

Archive · #53 02-03-2008, 10:38 AM

Posted By: SteveAm I to assume that anything from ScoreBoard is suspect? Steve

Archive · #54 02-03-2008, 10:53 AM

Posted By: leonMy email is on every single post I ever make on this board. All anyone has to do is click on it. My email is also at the top of almost every page where it says contact the moderator. I have never been accused of being hard to get a hold of <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>......and my cell # is 214-282-4943 regards

Archive · #55 02-03-2008, 10:54 AM

Posted By: Richard SimonThere is a question about fake Scoreboard COA's being circulated in the hobby. I don't think that Shelly is accusing Scoreboard of anything. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #56 02-03-2008, 11:25 AM

Posted By: leonMicah emailed me with his full name and contact info....I think he and Shelly have already emailed each other off line. That satisfies the anonymity aspect of this thread.....best regards

Archive · #57 02-03-2008, 11:26 AM

Posted By: Richard SimonSean - Carl Meyer has been around for over 20 years. I had thought he was long gone, not having heard about him for some time, but was made aware of his presence about a year ago. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #58 02-03-2008, 12:06 PM

Posted By: shelly jaffeI did not say that the Score Board items where bad. All I said is that is one place where I bought the Williams balls. I opened this thread so we could talk about Morales and STAT and to reply to Morales statements. These are the guys that authenticate for CC. The ones you rip every week or so. I am not the bad guy is this story. I might be a felon and piece of garbage to some of you but this thread was not about me it was about showing who these authenticators really are.

Archive · #59 02-03-2008, 12:35 PM

Posted By: Eric"Does STAT and Morales even know about this thread?" I emailed Chris to let him know of this thread and that his response was requested. He emailed me back, the following message: "I am in Mongolia on a forensic project as a contractor for the U.S. Government. I will be home on 2/11 and can deal with this then." So now he knows about this thread.

Archive · #60 02-03-2008, 01:54 PM

Posted By: boxingcardmanAll I can say is that the autograph business makes the card business look clean. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

Archive · #61 02-03-2008, 01:58 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI've stayed out of this thread but have been reading it. One thought, however, does come to mind: Could there be a more reprehensible area of the hobby than autograph collecting? Fraud seems to be the norm, and the number of bad sellers and bad authenticators strains the imagination. How does anybody even enjoy this? It absolutely stinks. Thanks you, and please carry on.

Archive · #62 02-03-2008, 02:19 PM

Posted By: EricI couldn't agree with you more Barry.

Archive · #63 02-03-2008, 02:28 PM

Posted By: SteveI agree Barry. The only auto's I have in my collection are those that I got in person. Steve

Archive · #64 02-03-2008, 02:55 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaThe only autographs I pursue are team signed minor league balls that no one would ever waste time forging. I really don't know how anyone could spend big money on autographs - the horror stories are all too common.

Archive · #65 02-03-2008, 03:13 PM

Posted By: FGNIs this thread going to turn into a bunch of card guys bashing the autograph hobby now? I for one collect both and it would be nice if any input would serve to further the direction of this thread. It seems as though there is some real interest in the topic and that Shelly has touched a nerve or two. We all know the autograph hobby has its problems but what area of collecting doesn't. It's not like this forum doesn't have a page dedicated to trimming, soaking and otherwise altering baseball cards. I mean a seasoned autograph collector who can, for the most part, detect a forged signature (lets say someone with autograph knowledge comparable to Barry's knowledge about cards) might read this forum and say: "Could there be a more reprehensible area of the hobby than card collecting? Fraud seems to be the norm, and the number of bad sellers and bad authenticators strains the imagination. How does anybody even enjoy this? It absolutely stinks."

Archive · #66 02-03-2008, 04:12 PM

Posted By: barrysloateFGN (is that your real name?)- that is a fair point and I know that autographs are widely collected. But I find this thread profoundly depressing as one scoundrel, or reformed scoundrel, confronts another. Why are there so many bad autographs in the hobby? It seems to me that any shady character can have a field day faking signatures, and I for one stay as far away from them as possible. No question there is stuff that goes on with baseball cards. But this thread is a lulu.

Archive · #67 02-03-2008, 04:17 PM

Posted By: leonIn about 10 minutes your post is going to be deleted if you don't put your name by it.....nothing personal. The rules are the rules.... edited to say FDN has emailed me. he doesn't want to make his name public but I will share his name privately if need be....

Archive · #68 02-03-2008, 04:30 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonThe only cards I own are commons of the teams that I root for or have rooted for, cards that no one would ever waste time trimming, bleaching, erasing, reproducing, staining, coloring, restoring, stretching, aging, etc. I would never spend big money on cards - the horror stories are all too common. --- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #69 02-03-2008, 04:33 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanBut Richard, an altered card is still a card. A fake autograph is a piece of garbage. And the FBI claims that about 70% of all autographs are fakes; certainly the card market doesn't suffer from such a high rate of fraud.

Archive · #70 02-03-2008, 04:44 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonJeff - The FBI said 70% of the autograph market was fake. When the Marino family was riding high that might have been true. I am fairly certain it is not that high now, though it is certainly higher than the percentage of bogus cards. It is probably higher in the entertainment end of it than in the sports end. And my post was meant partially to lighten up the mood here, not as a condemnation of card collecting <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>. I was just giving a little elbow to Dan Bretta for his post. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #71 02-03-2008, 06:38 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonEric - I was wondering what the weather was like in Mongolia at 4 30 am when your e mail to Mr Morales was answered. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #72 02-03-2008, 07:58 PM

Posted By: EricRichard, I guess I should state that I have no ties to Morales. I just want to see where this thread goes, and thought I'd help. I used to collect autographs, but have decided to part ways with the hobby. I don't like where it is today, or where it's going. Vintage cards is what I'm all about. That being said I emailed Chris to let him know of this thread, so he could answer the questions that were asked of him. The response I got back from him was at 9:18am, which means he would have responded at either 8:18pm or 9:18pm in Mongolian time zones, which is reasonable. So if he won't be back until 2/11 to respond, this thread needs to stay towards the top and hopefully it won't get locked down before then.

Archive · #73 02-03-2008, 08:10 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaRichard, Touche. That's two "Touches" in one thread. Two too many! <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

Archive · #74 02-03-2008, 08:12 PM

Posted By: SteveBut Richard, an altered card is still a card. A fake autograph is a piece of garbage. And the FBI claims that about 70% of all autographs are fakes; certainly the card market doesn't suffer from such a high rate of fraud. That would be the coin market. lol Steve

Archive · #75 02-03-2008, 08:14 PM

Posted By: EricI know, getting off track here, but what plagues the coin market? I know absolutely nothing about coins.

Archive · #76 02-03-2008, 08:25 PM

Posted By: SteveEric Email sent. Steve

Archive · #77 02-03-2008, 08:31 PM

Posted By: EricThanks Steve, I appreciate it. You learn something new every day.

Archive · #78 02-03-2008, 09:18 PM

Posted By: brianI had about 10 Scoreboard certified signed baseballs obtained in the late 1990s. A few years ago, sent them in to PSA/DNA and they all passed. Two of them were DiMaggio and Bench.

Archive · #79 02-04-2008, 02:09 AM

Posted By: DDHow will the Mongolian government react if eventually Morales was to have his good name publicly dragged through the mud? I guess the U.S. government does hire people with dubious credentials.

Archive · #80 02-04-2008, 06:54 AM

Posted By: micahYesterday after my post to Shelly that included some very pointed questions, Shelly wisely chose to take our discussion "off forum" I wish the forum would allow me to post these "private emails" but I understand it is against policy. I will of course follow the policy. What I would like to do however is to bring Shelly back in front of the public. Through the course of these private emails, one thing became apparent, Shelly is still trying to dish out half truths and sugar coated versions of his past. Shelly continues to dodge my questions and ask me "What does this have to do with STAT and Chris Morales?" To be claar, I have no ties to those dealers and to be honest have never had any dealings with those dealers/authenticators in any form or fashion. I have my own issues with numerous items I see in CC auctions. 1. I have yet to get Shelly to answer specificall who he has given refunds to. Not a single name of a reimburssed vistim. So once again Shelly, can you back up this claim? 2. Shelly originally denied ever dealing with the public on a regular basis. Not only did I witness him set up at shows in So Cal but in the last 24 hours I have spoken with other collectors and dealers that can attest to this. I have sent out emails directing them to this site and I am sure some will be posting here as well. When I confronted Shelly with the fact that their are other dealers that can back up my caims that he did sell his fakes to the public, his response was.......drumroll please....... SHELLY NOW ADMITS THAT HE DID DO SOME SHOWS BUT THAT WHEN HE SAT UP AT THESE SHOWS HE ONLY SOLD REAL STUFF AND LEFT THE FAKES AT HOME! My question for the educaed attornies, collectors, prosecutors, et all of this forum: Am I the only person that thinks this excuse is plain laughable? Honestly, does anyone believe that Shelly would have gained a moment of clarity here and decided in the middle of selling fakes and forgeries to suddenly offer only real stuff when he sat up at shows? I honestly want the forums feedback on this and welcome any further explanation from Shelly 3. After denying selling Cal Ripken balls and being confronted with his own printed quotes regarding the sell of Ripken balls, his response was basiclly: Ok, you are right, I did sell Ripken balls but they were real. I hope everyone now sees what I was expressing these last 48 hours. Shelly seems to have one version while the facts state another and his story evolves daily. Shelly's response to the Operation Bullpen book was that there were mistakes in the book and that the FBI did not have to sign off on this. I reconfirmed yesterday that the book was approved by the FBI. The books author will confirm this. I asked Shelly if the part in the book where he sought out and auditioned Greg Marino to be his forger of choice were accurate and he has not answered me directly as of yet. Once again, please give me feedback regarding Shelly's calim that he only sold real items at shows. I am not a criminal profiler but it just sounds like more of the same baloney I was fed that day at the National. I think if someone is going to be labeled reformed, their needs to be a 100% honest accountability.

Archive · #81 02-04-2008, 07:03 AM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonMicah - any word on the receipts you obtained from Shelly when you bought from him or from the FBI when you turned over your items to them? You seem to be avoiding that issue in every post you have made. Do these documents exist or not?? You would have a lot more credibility if you could produce those documents. Right now it's he said - he said. Let us see some evidence of your claims of purchasing from Shelly and turning over your items to the FBI. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #82 02-04-2008, 07:13 AM

Posted By: micahThere is no he said, she said here. I turned these items over to the FBI. My employeer and I was contacted by them in the form of a letter originally because we bought items from a company called Overtime Prowear. Our name was on their list of buyers they obtained from Overtime Prowears records. This led to me turning over the other items from the other named sellers, Shelly and Stans Sports. I may have the originall letter from 2000 but not sure. I can bring a lot of other collectors to this forum that turned over items that never received a return or a single letter or response. How do you say "he said she said" when I am referencing a published book that was approved by the FBI?

Archive · #83 02-04-2008, 07:16 AM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonMicah - you still have not provided receipts to substantiate your claims. A receipt for your purchase and a receipt from the FBI to establish that you did give them the questionable items. Simple questions - Did you get receipts when buying these items? Did you get receipts from the FBI when you turned them over? If so, lets see them. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #84 02-04-2008, 07:19 AM

Posted By: micahYes, any paperwork we had 8 years ago was turned over to the FBI with the items. Any coa or receipt we had went there. Can I make it any clearer?.

Archive · #85 02-04-2008, 07:27 AM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonHow about the receipt from the FBI when you turned over everything to them? From what I understand, and correct me if I am wrong, that is standard FBI procedure. And I still don't understand how you claim the FBI approves publication of a book. This is still the United States of America with a Constitution. FBI approval, possibly with the exception of quotes from the agents, is not necessary in this country. We are still a democracy, not a Fascist state. If the books author did get FBI approval of the book, I would love to see his e mail to you about that. I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #86 02-04-2008, 07:33 AM

Posted By: micahWe never receieved anything fromm them except for the original letter which already had the inventory in the letter. It amazed me that they had the record of every item we bought. My employeer may need to chime in here. He was the one who had the inital contact. I will give him a call and see if he received anything besides the original letter. I know I personally did not. I think the whole organized refund program came after Stan pled down. That did not start until 2004. Early on, the FBI was very upfront about the procedure. They explained that by turning the items over we were not guaranteed that we would get them back or receieve a refund. We understood this from the beginning. A lot of buyes never received restitutution. Do you think you can get Shelly to come on here and provide the buyers he refunded? Also, can you get him to confirm or deny that he did audition Greg Marino as the FBI approved published book states? Any help would be appreciated.

Archive · #87 02-04-2008, 07:37 AM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonI think that Shelly has admitted that he did audition Greg Marino. As far as I know, he has not denied that. And please, I would love to see the e mail from the author stating that the FBI approved the book. I read the book, I still have the book and I don't see anything on the cover that says approved by the FBI and I don't remember reading any such thing when I did read the book. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #88 02-04-2008, 07:38 AM

Posted By: micahCall the author of the book, it is his claim. I think, not certain, but am quite sure that it is even stated in the book. I gave my copy away after reading it but just ordered another through Amazon yesterday. When I get it in hand this week, I will be posting some information from the book. Believe me, the FBI can certainly stop publication of a book if they think they are being sourced and it is inaccurate. It happened with the original version of the outed CIA opertaive, Valery Plamme (sp.?) book

Archive · #89 02-04-2008, 07:44 AM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonI believe the Valerie Plame book was redacted by the CIA. I don't know if the FBI had anything to do with that book. And she was a CIA agent, an entirely different situation. They can pre approve anything an agent writes, but Mr Nelson is certainly not an FBI agent, FBI pre approval was not necessary. Here is a quote from one of your prior posts: "I reconfirmed yesterday that the book was approved by the FBI. The books author will confirm this." Did you contact the books author for this confirmation? Phone? E mail? -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss -- edited for typo

Archive · #90 02-04-2008, 07:46 AM

Posted By: micahShelly neve admitted it to me and the word "audition" has never been quoted by Shelly except in the book. The version I received from him at the National, the version I believed for a while, was completely different than what is portrayed in the book. Until the book came out, Shelly explained in SCD he was simply caught up in the process and couldn't compete at the shows any longer with sellers selling bad items. I guess I can compare it like this: Someone gets caught snorting coke. They explain that they were in a room at a party and it was offered to them and before they knew it, they were caught up in a bad decison they regrettted. Then you find out the culprit actually called a drug dealer, drove acorss town and sought the drug out himself. You have a little less sympathy on the last version. Understood? Maybe thats a bad analogy. Do you have an knowledge of Shelly returning money to duped buyers?

Archive · #91 02-04-2008, 07:49 AM

Posted By: micahI initially confirmed by phone and reconfirmed through my employeer who also spoke with the author over a year ago. I am fairly certain this claim is in the book itself. Lets sit tight and I will report when the book comes in this week. Are you the Simon that did the cool sports art prints in the 80's?

Archive · #92 02-04-2008, 07:53 AM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonNo I am not the Simon that did sports prints in the 1980s. I can barely draw a straight line, so my art would not bring very much $$. I am in the autograph business and have been for a long time. --- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #93 02-04-2008, 07:54 AM

Posted By: micahRichard-Do you personally believe Shelly's claim that he only would sell real items at the shows?

Archive · #94 02-04-2008, 07:58 AM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonAccording to my understanding Shelly was an honest seller at shows, until he could not do much business due to the crooks. He got frustrated by all the crooks undercutting his business, so that is why he started to sell bogus items. I have worked with Shelly in the past, as stated in a prior post and I think he is now an honest guy and has worked hard to try and clean up much of the crap that goes on in this business. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #95 02-04-2008, 07:59 AM

Posted By: micahHeading out for my weekly penance and then to friends for the big game pre party. I will respond to anything after the gane late tonigt or early tomorow.

Archive · #96 02-04-2008, 07:59 AM

Posted By: shelly jaffeI will say this one more time. What ever anyone thinks of me, liar, cheat, scumbag. It has nothing to do with what the thread was all about. I am answering Morales challenge as to his what he said about the HBO show. Micha can write and say what ever he wants. I really don't care. If I said black he would say white.

Archive · #97 02-04-2008, 08:24 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI can completely understand that Micah is frustrated. He was sold a bunch of crap and never got compensated for it. However the person involved in the crime did the time that was given him and has come here to try and get STAT to answer for the crap they are pumping in to the autograph hobby. Micah has completely derailed this post when he should have either started his own post or taken it to email. Not that I think STAT has the courage to answer to these questions, but the more pressure put on them the better.

Archive · #98 02-04-2008, 05:18 PM

Posted By: micahgRichard: From a December 27, 2006 article in The Anderson Valley Post: Back in 2001, Da Babe traveled to Hawaii for Krause’s annual trade conference where “Operation Bullpen” was a main topic. Tim Fitzsimmons, the FBI agent in charge of the operation, and Phil Halpern, the assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted the cases, were featured speakers. They also sat down with me for interviews. Reading Nelson’s book reminded me of just how widespread the forgeries were and possibly still are. We’re talking thousands and thousands of consumers defrauded to the tune of millions and millions of dollars. In the end, 63 people were arrested and prosecuted. Those 63 folks operated 15 rings—with a forger at the center of each of those enterprises. Investigators parlayed an undercover operative’s work, a wire tap and a key player agreeing to cooperate with them to bring down the forgery rings. After breezing through Nelson’s book, I touched base with Fitzsimmons and Halpern to see if the book was accurate and how they felt about the whole process. FITSIMMONS SAID HE WORKED WITH NELSON AS THE BOOK WAS DEVELOPED AND IS SATISFIED WITH ITS ACCURACY. Halpern said he has yet to read the book. As for “Operation Bullpen” and its results, both said they were glad that the cases focused attention on the major problem of forgery. “I am extremely pleased we were able to highlight to the public the dangers of buying memorabilia,” Halpern said.

Archive · #99 02-04-2008, 07:55 PM

Posted By: Richard S. SimonMicah - an FBI agent who cooperated with an author on a book is a lot different than stating that the FBI approved the book. If the FBI has to approve books we may as well tear up the Constitution, and let the redcoats come back. Tim Fitzsimmons was the major player for the government in Operation Bullpen, how could he not have cooperated with the author of the book. I think we should agree to disagree and end this part of the thread. You have your opinion, I have mine, neither of us is going to change. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive · #**100** 02-04-2008, 08:12 PM

Posted By: micahRichard-yep, . we are splitting hairs here. The main question for me: Is the book accurate? It appears, sadly, to be true in all aspects. When I asked Shelly four seperate times if it were true regarding the authors version of him auditioning forgers, twice on here and twice in emails, I got the run around and mentions of inaccuracies with the book. I spoke with the author by phone today again. He stands by everyhing in the book and would love to hear from anyone regarding innacuracies. He did state to me that their was no "Official Approval" from the FBI before it could go to printing but that the agent Fitzsimmons worked with him with every aspect of the book and personally approved it all. He also agreed that any interview with the FBI for the book would have approval before printing. Kevin is a serious author and the last thing he would want to do is print a bunch of rumors. Anyone can order his book online. He will even sign the book. And yes, the signature will be authentic!

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