Does anyone actually have any interest in something like this?

[Orioles1954]

The issue is mostly moot anyway. Far fewer of these bats are being cut up due to manufacturer attrition, and that most modern collectors are favoring multi-colored game-used patches.

P.S: I remember in the 1980s The Smithsonian Museum of American History were selling certified pieces from one of Amelia Earhart's airplanes in their gift shop. If you seriously have a beef with card companies doing this to pre-war baseball items, why not contact the licensing division of MLB?

[quinnsryche]

Why can't people collect what they want without others judging what they believe to be the "right way" to collect? If someone wants to buy a Ty Cobb game used bat and enjoy it, ok. If someone wants to buy a card with a piece of game used Ty Cobb bat , ok. I think someone who collects cards that are missing 30-40% of the card is a bit strange, but have at it. I like graded cards, so shoot me. Should we build a time machine a go back and flog the kid who trimmed their Eddie Plank card, glued their Magie in an album or put their Wagner in the spokes of their bike? I know a guy who wallpapered his bathroom with cards and laughs every time he see the 52 Mantle, 53 Mays, 54 Banks etc. up on the wall. Let's lighten up here, it's only baseball cards! To compare the destruction of the Mona Lisa, Dead Sea Scrolls or Wailing Wall to the bat of a baseball player is absolutely ludicrous.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think Lichtman really wants the card and is just trashing it in the hope of discouraging people from bidding on it -- a favorite tactic of his old friend Mr. Lewis.

[steve B]

I'm of mixed feelings on the modern game used cards. If it's a recent or current player I'm pretty much ok with it. The player can merely buy an extra, wear it for one inning, or if a bat use it for one at bat, and it's game used. No problem there.

But cutting up the older stuff just seems wrong, except in some special circumstances. I'll get to those later.

And I've been one of those people that could never afford much of anything game used. Much of the great stuff is still out of reach, but I can get the cheaper items. I used to look at the auctions and see articles or tv spots about some really great collections, and think ...Someday....

And I was able to pick up a few items by luck or knowledge or both.

Where will todays collectors get that sort of inspiration? What will they see as a goal to reach for? Will it be seen as worthwhile to learn about what a real piece of equipment should look like, or will that be seen as hopeless.
It works for cards too. It's very unlikely I'll ever own some of the really rare stuff, but I'm very glad there's people who can and do and notice the details about those cards.

The few times I'd think that cutting up something older would be if the item was really trashed to start with. Maybe a Cobb bat portion, like if he broke a bat and someone saved one of the pieces? Maybe not even then. Or maybe something like my Fenway seat. cut out very roughly in the early 70's remodel, it's got very uneven slats on one side. It really should be trimmed evenly, but then what to do with the roughly 6 and 8 inch pieces? Yeah, those could go into a card and I'd be ok with it.

Steve B

[Exhibitman]

David, in your vitriol you are missing my point: The analogy to items in museums and to public historic sites is inapposite. We are not talking about cutting up a museum collection, we are talking about privately-owned items that are not part of a public trust. I agree that ruining a museum collection--something expressly set aside for the public's benefit and education--is a stupid idea. Had you read carefully you would have seen that in my initial post I had already dismissed that idea. However, the issue framed the way that you and many other posters here frame it is a red herring. My card collection is a more apt analogy--privately held and not used for the public's benefit. It would not be as much of an issue if I decided to make relic cards from my collection as it would if the same exact cards in the Burdick Collection were shredded by the Met and sold in the gift shop.

Better yet, how about strip cards? Many collectors who get uncut strips will cut them down to individual cards, especially if one or two of them are mutilated and the rest are nice. Is that a collecing "sin" akin to cutting up the Mona Lisa?

My point, once again since you either missed it or do not want to acknowledge it, is that we are dicussing privately holding an item for one person's good versus cutting it up and creating many items that many people might privately hold and enjoy, not cutting up a piece of the commonly-held cultural heritage and distributing it to private owners. The two are very different concepts and in my view merit different reactions. All of the whining about the desecration of baseball history is based on a premise about the use and disposition of items in question that is inaccurate.

[caramelcard]

This thread should be cut up and sent to the PSA board.

I think folks can collect what they want, but we on this vintage baseball card board have the right to bash them!

[ctownboy]

Exhibitman,

Wasn't Burdick's cards once privately held? Weren't they in HIS home and enjoyed mostly only by HIM? What would have happened if he would have decided to throw his cards away or decided to cut them into small pieces and give them away or sell them? They would NOT have ever been donated to the museum for ALL to look at, study and enjoy.

The Ty Cobb bat could have been disposed of in a similiar manner; a wealthy guy buys it for his PERSONAL collection and displays it IN HIS HOME. Then, when he is older and finds out his children have NO INTEREST in baseball and that there ARE museums who would be HAPPY to have a bat like that to display, he COULD have donated it for the public trust.

But now, the bat is cut up into small pieces it can NEVER be put back together and displayed as a complete bat and thus EVERYONE who is interested in seeing such a thing and who can not afford it will NEVER get the chance to.

The SAME goes for YOUR collection. I don't know who you are, where you live or what is in your collection. I may never know any of it. Thus, I would have no clue what I missed out on if you decided to cut your collecton up into small pieces and sell it. However, as long as your collection is NOT cut up into small pieces there IS a chance that you would sell a piece or pieces of your collection and OTHERs could then have a chance to own and enjoy THAT piece. Also, there is a chance that YOUR COLLECTION is one day donated to a museum.

But THAT will NEVER happen if it is cut up into small pieces and dispersed.

David

[teetwoohsix]

James made a great point,something I also have wondered about-a good majority of the time,how do you really even know the difference between a game used jersey/bat/chunk of base/whatever as opposed to Joe Blow's shirt sleeve/stadium wooden plank seat/etc.,etc.??

Who is really going to know what it is (the relic)?

Something is to be said about that-and if there was a positive about this Ty Cobb relic bat card,at least it does have the Ty Cobb brand in the piece.

I am still against destroying a Ty Cobb bat for modern day card purposes,but to each his/her own.............

[ctownboy]

Exhibitman,

In the world of automobile collecting there is a saying that goes, "a car is only original once". That is why original, numbes matching cars sell for more than unoriginal cars.

As far as strip cards and the Mona Lisa go, I say yes. The values might be different but the concept is the same; cutting them up NOW just for monetary gain is wrong.

Back in the 1920's, strip cards weren't worth anything and kids back then cut them up as they were supposed to be cut up. Ninety years later when few, if any, original strips are left and people want to know WHO made these cards and how they were distributed, it would be NICE to have an ORIGINAL strip of cards to look at and study.

Look at how much time and effort Tedzan has put into studying T 206 cards and how they were made, when they were made and how they were distributed. Just think how much easier it would be to research these cards if somebody in the tobacco company would have saved information pertaining to these cards or somebody at American Litho Company would have saved an uncut sheet or two. Just think if that info or those sheets would have been saved by a collector and then donated to a museum?

So yes, again, I think cutting up strip cards NOW for monetary gain is equal to cutting up the Mona Lisa--original information is permanantly lost that future humans might like to know, learn about and study.

We don't know as much about the Maya or Aztec civilizations NOW because the priests accompanying the Spanish sailors ordered their books to be burned. Also, the Spanish sailors took the gold and silver artifacts so that they could be melted down and used for other things. Look at all that was lost because of that and all the question we NOW have?

Just because destroying something NOW seems like a good idea (especially for monetary gain) in the future it might not be looked upon as a good idea.

Also, destroying items in one area could lead down a slippery slope where items are destroyed in other areas JUST BECAUSE a precedent has been established.

David

[Leon]

I am just waiting for the ole "my sliver is better than your sliver" argument, about now!!

[quinnsryche]

Comparing the collective loss of an entire civilization to cutting up 1 baseball bat is hardly worth the time in arguing about it. That comparison is wholly ridiculous. If as previously stated one can cull approx. 2000 useable pieces from 1 bat, then we are talking about ONE BAT being destroyed for the enjoyment of 2000 people as opposed to ONE BAT being stored away for the enjoyment of one person. Let's be completely honest here, unless EXTREMELY wealthy, no one is going to donate a Ty Cobb bat anywhere! The said children of the owner will sell that bat in a hot minute, pocket the cash and the bat will then be sequestered away for another 50 years until the offspring of another millionaire decides to dump it again. My suggestion to all who are indignant over this issue is to stay away from the modern card market because as Dr. Zaius told Taylor "Don't look for it because you may not like what you find!"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

P.S: I remember in the 1980s The Smithsonian Museum of American History were selling certified pieces from one of Amelia Earhart's airplanes in their gift shop. If you seriously have a beef with card companies doing this to pre-war baseball items, why not contact the licensing division of MLB?

At least it wasn't Roberto Clemente's plane.