List of known Red HINDU's....can you add any new ones ?

[ullmandds]

"Let me try to learn something now. If the card has been in existence for at least 11 years (back to Mastro's sale) how in the world has such a high profile card escaped detection as being an altered piece? Is it just that each new owner spends mega bucks for it, then locks it away in denial....afraid to have it examined for genuine authenticity? I cannot understand this. What are your thoughts?"

Hey Chi-Town...are you familiar with the famous gretzky Wagner...psa graded 8? Talk about spending mega bucks...on an altered card! My thoughts are that many people have high grade...potentially altered, holdered cards in their collection. What good would it serve them to have them deemed altered/overgraded...and obviously quite less valuable? Surely a man with such an interest in finance can understand this?

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

"Let me try to learn something now. If the card has been in existence for at least 11 years (back to Mastro's sale) how in the world has such a high profile card escaped detection as being an altered piece? Is it just that each new owner spends mega bucks for it, then locks it away in denial....afraid to have it examined for genuine authenticity? I cannot understand this. What are your thoughts?"

Hey Chi-Town...are you familiar with the famous gretzky Wagner...psa graded 8? Talk about spending mega bucks...on an altered card! My thoughts are that many people have high grade...potentially altered, holdered cards in their collection. What good would it serve them to have them deemed altered/overgraded...and obviously quite less valuable? Surely a man with such an interest in finance can understand this?

I guess my biggest concern is this...How does Ullmandds, and presumably most of the members here know this information, but the guys who continue to spend mega bucks dont have a clue as to what they are buying??? How is such a "well known secret" kept when the hammer falls at auction?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

I guess my biggest concern is this...How does Ullmandds, and presumably most of the members here know this information, but the guys who continue to spend mega bucks dont have a clue as to what they are buying??? How is such a "well known secret" kept when the hammer falls at auction?

Peter and I both asked about this card. Are you aware of the story behind it? It's going to be displayed in Cooperstown this year. MLB is happy. The HOF is overjoyed. The current owner is pretty proud. (Psst! It's hand cut from a sheet and trimmed. Don't tell!)

[Chicago206]

Do you feel the Gretzky party knew the card was sheet cut? Was that fairly common knowlege prior to the 2.8 million bid it realized? If the answer to both of these is "yes", then the market has deemed this type of alteration to be "market acceptable". However, I dont think it will ever be "market acceptable" to re-back a card....especially a card that may not have ever been printed in the first place!

So Jim...if it were your Cobb/RH, would you take all steps needed to validate/dismiss its authenticity? Or would you take the "head buried in the sand" approach?

[ullmandds]

Honestly...I think there are a lot of wealthy people who collect things...baseball cards for example...to whom 50K isn't much money...and whom probably don't really care that much to know the truth. These people probably don't spend their days on Net54 discussing the nuances of the hobby...they just put the card in a safety deposit box until it's ready to sell.

[Abravefan11]

Chicago -

Con artists thrive on people that want to believe something is real so badly they ignore all the warning signs that it might not be.

If you spent $40k on a card would you really want to be the owner when it's found out not to be real? What's your upside for finding out it not authentic?

If you find out it is authentic you're no better off than you were when you started.

Ignorance can truly be bliss!

Edited to add: I'm not saying anyone is coning someone with this card.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Do you feel the Gretzky party knew the card was sheet cut? Was that fairly common knowlege prior to the 2.8 million bid it realized? If the answer to both of these is "yes", then the market has deemed this type of alteration to be "market acceptable". However, I dont think it will ever be "market acceptable" to re-back a card....especially a card that may not have ever been printed in the first place!

So Jim...if it were your Cobb/RH, would you take all steps needed to validate/dismiss its authenticity? Or would you take the "head buried in the sand" approach?

Gretzky (and former LA Kings owner Bruce McNall) bought the card for around $450,000. If you note, the serial number on the card, it was pretty early in the infancy of PSA. They knew that grading this card would be great publicity. They were correct. It changed hands several times, at least 4-5 since Gretzky, maybe more. It went up in price each time. It is currently owned by the owner of the Diamondbacks. He doesn't seem to care that it may be trimmed. Interestingly, he also owns the companion Plank. That one is graded "A."

It's not market acceptable and never will be. But you don't need a wide market to sell that card. Just one buyer with deep pockets. I have no doubt it will continue to increase in value.

[Jim VB]

Pick up a copy of this book.


http://www.amazon.com/Card-Collector...1869352&sr=1-1


There are parts that will make you wonder why we all do this.

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Pick up a copy of this book.


http://www.amazon.com/Card-Collector...1869352&sr=1-1


There are parts that will make you wonder why we all do this.

*

I know why I do it.

I'm a dumb ass collector that loves it.

I even went to your State of Texas for the 1990 National.

And being that we're talking about creative art.

My sole mission:

It was an attempt to warn the dealers about a guy named Danny Dupchek, AKA Dr Koos. ... he specialized in cards.

Macrae, and I looked for some of you boys, but I guess it was before you guys got into it.

What a waste of my money, and time, I shudda looked for cards instead.

[E93]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Interestingly, he also owns the companion Plank. That one is graded "A."

Jim VB,
I am pretty sure the owner of the "Authentic" Plank/Piedmont that appears nm/mt and comes from the same find as the Gretzky Wagner is not the owner of the Diamondbacks. I believe the Diamondbacks owner bought the PSA 8 Plank from Candiotti, but it originated from a different source.
JimB

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by E93

Jim VB,
I am pretty sure the owner of the "Authentic" Plank/Piedmont that appears nm/mt and comes from the same find as the Gretzky Wagner is not the owner of the Diamondbacks. I believe the Diamondbacks owner bought the PSA 8 Plank from Candiotti, but it originated from a different source.
JimB

Thanks Jim. I stand corrected. I knew he owned a Plank. I thought I read it somewhere, but I guess I just made the fallacious assumption, that he owned the matched set. Thanks for straightening me out.