Most Overrated Pre-War Player is...

[D. Bergin]

Hard to believe Sisler is in this conversation. Based on others general knowledge of his career and what seems like a lack of interest in his cards compared to many others, I'd put him right smack into the under-rated category.

The guy had some amazing years, with some awful line-ups around him.

OBP is flawed in that it gives walks the exact same relevance as hits. Hits most often move up runners extra bases, not just one base at a time. Sisler was also a Triples machine and stole plenty of bases.

Put the guy in the middle of a Yankees line-up and we'd be paying Gehrig like money for his cards.

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Hard to believe Sisler is in this conversation. Based on others general knowledge of his career and what seems like a lack of interest in his cards compared to many others, I'd put him right smack into the under-rated category.

The guy had some amazing years, with some awful line-ups around him.

OBP is flawed in that it gives walks the exact same relevance as hits. Hits most often move up runners extra bases, not just one base at a time. Sisler was also a Triples machine and stole plenty of bases.

Put the guy in the middle of a Yankees line-up and we'd be paying Gehrig like money for his cards.

I absolutely agree 100%. Bringing up Sisler's name in this conversation is possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen presented in any thread!

[oldjudge]

Tommy McCarthy for one. I also agree that King Kelly, while extremely popular, is overrated. He was comparable to Buck Ewing offensively, but not the defensive catcher that Buck was. In the 1920's, Connie Mack called Buck Ewing the greatest catcher he had ever seen.

[rhettyeakley]

David, I understand why many of the players that are on your list are on there but the one name that really jumped out at me as being the notable exception on your list is Pie Traynor.

At the time Traynor retired he was literally regarded as the greatest 3rd Baseman that had ever lived. While his statistics aren't as sexy as some anybody regarded as the "greatest" at any position during their career (or in his case history up to that point) doesn't really have any place on an overrrated list.

-Rhett

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...hall-of-famers

Looks who's number 1!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

The fact that he was rated number one just begs the question whether or not he deserved the ranking, if not then he was overrated. It's like trying to prove God exists because the Bible says so. As to the merits, I don't really have an opinion, I think third basemen do tend not to have great stats.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...hall-of-famers

Looks who's number 1!!

According to the writer Sisler "stumbled" into the Hall of Fame and Lou Brock is "the worst pick ever".

This is possibly the "worst article ever".

[Doug]

Rube Marquard with a 201-177 record and a 3.08 ERA doesn't look overly impressive IMO.

[David W]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

David, I understand why many of the players that are on your list are on there but the one name that really jumped out at me as being the notable exception on your list is Pie Traynor.

At the time Traynor retired he was literally regarded as the greatest 3rd Baseman that had ever lived. While his statistics aren't as sexy as some anybody regarded as the "greatest" at any position during their career (or in his case history up to that point) doesn't really have any place on an overrrated list.

-Rhett

OK, I'll concede Traynor and replace him with Earl Combs and Joe Sewell....

[rhettyeakley]

Peter, that may actually be the worst "article" I've ever read. There are no real criteria he is following--and I have little doubt he read what Bill James wrote and (as with many Bill James subscribers) if James wrote it it couldn't possibly be wrong.

I am all for statistical studies and analysis BUT there IS a human element to baseball--if there wasn't it would be played by mindless robots. I have a really hard time looking back in history and saying the guys that played along side the players themselves were idiots and couldn't recognize talent. Pie Traynor was deemed as the best all-around third baseman in history at the time he retired--Bill James has him ranked outside the top 10-15 third sackers. George Sisler was considered one of the greatest pure contact hitters and an intelligent player--but acording to this joker (the writer of the article NOT Bill James) he "stumbled into the Hall". Also how can any list purporting to include the most overrated players in history not include the likes of Bill Maz, Jesse Haines, Ted Lyons, Eppa Rixey and the bunch. Really, Sisler, Traynor and Brock are the most overrated ever...joke!

[Peter_Spaeth]

[QUOTE=rhettyeakley;863785]Also how can any list purporting to include the most overrated players in history not include the likes of Bill Maz, Jesse Haines, Ted Lyons, Eppa Rixey and the bunch./QUOTE]

I agree completely those players are not HOF worthy, along with many others. I don't think though that either the writer or James is suggesting Sisler, Traynor, Brock etc. don't belong in the HOF -- rather, they think they should not be regarded as highly as they are. As to your point about contemporaries, that sort of view can be biased, as we saw from the big push Frankie Frisch made to get lots of unworthies into the Hall in the 50s.