My impromptu chat with Joe O.

[glchen]

One thing brought up in this thread and others that I find interesting yet debateable is the idea of "freeing a card from its plastic prison." It's another part of the raw vs slabbed debate, yet it's similar to the Toy Story idea where inanimate objects have feelings. I can understand this. There have been more than one instance in the dark of the night where I've been caught talking to my cards as if they're dear friends. And again, it is the owner's prerogative to do whatever he sees fit with his cards, whether it is to put them in an album or a bike spoke or a dart board. I know the feeling of opening a gum pack and touching my cards. You can feel the texture of cards in your hand. It's nice. You can sort and organize how you want. I've handled my pre-war cards also, and it's a different feeling. They are seldom the high grade of modern cards. When you do hold an excellent or near mint pre-war card raw, it's a feeling of awe as you wonder how it could have survived in this condition for so long.

However the phrase "freeing a card from its plastic prison" speaks more of the card's feelings than the owner's. I can see some parts of the argument where I think card owners can believe this. It's an airtight seal in the slab, and the cards cannot breathe. You can easily imagine a live card suffocating inside there. It is an unnatural environment where cards were not meant to be when first issued. Cards were meant to be played with, traded, and enjoyed. Cards may want to be right next to another card, raw to raw, similar to the skin to skin recommendations when caring for newborns.

However, I still don't know if that's what cards really want. It's back to the Toy Story argument where cards are similar to toys, and they want to exist for as long as possible, to be enjoyed their owners as much as possible. And cards may even have a selfish side where they want to exist in their current condition as long as possible. Cards do not want to be thrown away. They don't want to be tossed in the trash accidentally or on purpose. However, if you slab a card, there's much less chance that it will get tossed. Most collectors scoff when a 10 cent card is put into a $5 slab. That is an incredible waste of value, and they are right. However, what do the cards think? Are they proud that they are now in a nice safe slab? If they are in an SGC slab, better to show off their best attributes. If they are in a Beckett slab, this new home is bulletproof! For PSA, they can brag that they're now worth a little more in this slab than the others. I've holdered many a hideous raw card that had no right be slabbed. In a way, I felt like I was saving that card. Now that it was slabbed, it would be appreciated a lot more than when it were raw. It may have writing, holes, horrible creases, but now it had its own shiny slab to show off in. I think it knew it didn't deserve to be there, but it was glad it was. Now there would be more chance people would look at it and enjoy and less than it would be thrown away. For higher grade cards, I think the feeling is the similar. They want to keep their sharp corners, their uncreased surface. They've already survived a hundred odd years like this, and they want another hundred. An inside a slab, they are much more likely to keep their condition.

A card inside a slab can be enjoyed almost as much as a raw one. The only difference being you cannot feel the card. However, it only has two sides, so you can look and enjoy it just as much. I think that slabbing cards and coins would be similar in these respects. However, I do see more of an argument for comics. You can easily say that comics are meant to be read. And that comics want to be read. Inside a slab, you can only see the front and back cover; you can't read it. Therefore, I think there is more of an argument for freeing comics from their slab prison than for cards.

I recently purchased a W519-1 Ruth card with a blue background to go with my maroon and red/pink backgrounds. When the seller sold the card to me, he said he was glad it was going to a good home with my other Ruth's. It was slabbed, but regardless, I think it was happy also to go from one good place where it was appreciated to another, and where it could exchange its own war stories with the other cards.

[sreader3]

Good post Leon. Whenever I have emailed Joe Orlando with a concern about PSA authentication and/or grading, he has responded promptly and cordially. That's not to say that every issue has been resolved to my satisfaction, but at least a considered reply was given.

As for those who complain that Joe Orlando is all about protecting PSA's interests, I don't think that is really a valid criticism. Corporate officers have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of their company and shareholders.

PSA has its problems to be sure. PSA personnel make too many authentication, grading and labeling errors. But the company is hardly the evil empire it is sometimes made out to be, and Joe Orlando is not Darth Vader.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Joe Orlando is not Darth Vader.[/QUOTE]

I can tell he isn't Darth Vader.....because the farce is certainly with him.


I prefer raw cards.......I like the texture and the smell of them.

Oh yeah I abhor that cards are graded with numistmatic terms....cards are not "minted" Comic and stamp graders don't use these terms...why do card graders. I remember the first time hearing the word "mint" in relation to a card and it seem so funny and strange.....why has this misnomer invaded the card grading world and vintage autos and vintage toys? Comic slabs don't use nr mnt and mint..nor do philatelic slabs. Why is restoration accepted with comics and vintage autos and not sportscards? Ah well just thinin out loud. peace, dave

[A2000]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Comic slabs don't use nr mnt and mint..nor do philatelic slabs. Why is restoration accepted with comics and vintage autos and not sportscards? Ah well just thinin out loud. peace, dave

I cannot speak for vintage autos, but CGC comic book grading does use the near-mint, mint, etc descriptors. And restored comic books are heavily stigmatized in the marketplace.

[arexcrooke]

Originally Posted by A2000

I cannot speak for vintage autos, but CGC comic book grading does use the near-mint, mint, etc descriptors. And restored comic books are heavily stigmatized in the marketplace.

Especially books that have amateur work done.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I apologize about the comic grading....my mistake. dave ps I think I better have a few more cold ones then I'll be primed to continue. dave













i thank god i'm an atheist

[arexcrooke]

Not a problem. There was a lot of moaning and complaining with the introduction of the 10 point scale in the community. At one time there was even a 100 point scale. Talk about a book grading different every time someone looked at it. Thankfully after a couple of Sotheby Auctions they retooled it.
SGC grading scale is very similar to CGC and why I think it is a better scale than the one used by PSA.

[vargha]

I am not a raw card Luddite. I think TPG has been a huge boon to the hobby. That and the Internet have expanded it exponentially.

I do think Joe Orlando is a lying sack of crap. Hey Joe, I'm still waiting for the full story on WIWAG that you promised once the court action was over. I'm also still waiting for your response to the charge from a former head grader that PSA left two pallets of unsealed slabs in the parking lot at one time because there wasn't sufficient room in the old office at the time.

Bottom-line, Joe Orlando is a self-serving, lying weasel who holds his position because of those "qualities" rather than in spite of them.

[arexcrooke]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Joe Orlando is not Darth Vader.

I can tell he isn't Darth Vader.....because the farce is certainly with him.


I prefer raw cards.......I like the texture and the smell of them.

Oh yeah I abhor that cards are graded with numistmatic terms....cards are not "minted" Comic and stamp graders don't use these terms...why do card graders. I remember the first time hearing the word "mint" in relation to a card and it seem so funny and strange.....why has this misnomer invaded the card grading world and vintage autos and vintage toys? Comic slabs don't use nr mnt and mint..nor do philatelic slabs. Why is restoration accepted with comics and vintage autos and not sportscards? Ah well just thinin out loud. peace, dave[/QUOTE]
Comics do use mint terms:
VF/NM very fine/near mint 9.0
NM- Near mint minus 9.2
NM-Near Mint 9.4
NM+ Near Mint Plus 9.6
NM/MT 9.8
MT 9.9
CGC at one time used both the number and alpha grade on their slabs. It has only been recently that they have stopped. By recently I mean in the last several years.
And inside the hobby, the alpha and numeric are interchangeable.
And depends on the person and age of the book depends on whether restoration is accepted. But that is a whole can of worms lol