PSA 5 with paper loss?

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

In fairness to PSA, here's an SGC-graded one that I don't quite get - PSA would only give this a '2', correct? I know at the 3 and under levels, the grading companies don't put much emphasis on corners, but this is quite bad:

SGC 40 T206 Johnson

All of the corners look good except for the top left...cutting it close. I have a few SGC 40's that are on the edge of being a 30 b/c of the corners. Subjectivity...we could go on for days about this subject

Do grading companies really stick by their own standards? I think we have enough evidence to made a sound answer.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

All of the corners look good except for the top left...cutting it close. I have a few SGC 40's that are on the edge of being a 30 b/c of the corners. Subjectivity...we could go on for days about this subject

Do grading companies really stick by their own standards? I think we have enough evidence to made a sound answer.

If everyone on this board would agree to crack out all their cards at the same time, you could count me in. But what I'm finding from selling T206s on this board, both graded and raw, is that you guys much prefer graded cards - in the eyes of cash-holding board members, the slab seems to add quite a bit to the value. And I think the value is the actual slab, for better or for worse.

Personally, I think the cards look really cool in those tiny tobacco top-loaders, and that's where all my 'keepers' end up. But slabs look good also.

[Vegas-guy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

If everyone on this board would agree to crack out all their cards at the same time, you could count me in. But what I'm finding from selling T206s on this board, both graded and raw, is that you guys much prefer graded cards - in the eyes of cash-holding board members, the slab seems to add quite a bit to the value. And I think the value is the actual slab, for better or for worse.

Personally, I think the cards look really cool in those tiny tobacco top-loaders, and that's where all my 'keepers' end up. But slabs look good also.

I admit I'm one that (so far) has only bought graded (SGC) cards. For one I have a display case that is made for the holders, I also like the fact it displays year, name and back etc.

Now having said that, I'm not unwilling to buy "raw" cards but I have a hard time spending the same amount of $$$ (or more) on a EX raw card for something that might come back as trimmed, alt. etc if it was sent in. I guess it's just more piece of mind??? but what do I know..

[freakhappy]

I know a lot of people have their opinions about the grading companies, but I believe this Cobb is a great example of what seems to happen at PSA every once in a while. I've seen it with 3's, 4's and now a 5...the card itself looks outstanding, but there is a small to moderate amount of paper loss and for some reason PSA can't bring themselves to bring the grade all the way down to the grade to which their stated standards imply.

I know that graded cards aren't for everyone and really you have to examine the card and determine what it's worth to you and not let the grade on the holder determine it for you.

Scott...not to be crazy about the johnson grade, but I do think that the WoJo would be more fitting in a 2.5 holder instead of a 3...too nice for a 2, but not quite a 3? Another reason SGC should have half grades in the lower portion of their grading system

[Taxman]

I believe the case has been cracked out and replaced with a different card...Notice frosting on left side and round pin under the flip on the left side has been popped....Also why are the two front scans done with a black background and the back scan done with a white background to hide the frosting...I seriously doubt PSA would miss that big a piece of missing paper.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Scott...not to be crazy about the johnson grade, but I do think that the WoJo would be more fitting in a 2.5 holder instead of a 3...too nice for a 2, but not quite a 3? Another reason SGC should have half grades in the lower portion of their grading system

If I owned it, I would not complain about the grade. I just thought I'd flush out some opinions about corners and miscuts grading. I recently picked up a nice, large group of SGC 40's and 30's, and it was very interesting to see representative cards at both ends up each grade - horribly rounded corners on a no-gloss card that got a 30, then another 30 with strong corners and pack-fresh gloss that also got a 30 due to a single horizontal crease.

That's why when someone agrees to buy/trade a card from me based solely on a grade, without ever having seen the card, I make them look at a scan first. Maybe they don't care, but if you like cards, you need to get used to looking at them.

Regarding the nice way the slabs stack/display - that's all fine, but there is so much you will discover about a card once you are looking right at it - gloss, lithography detail, etc. Even my horrid eyes pick up a lot. They look better out of the slab.

[CMIZ5290]

Totally agree with taxman. I did not want to come out and say that initially, but now that someone has, i am. Absolutely no way psa missed that, especially being cobb.

[Taxman]

I might have to recant my statement....Here is a link to where the seller purchased the card. Notice it is a very old flip.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220896981433

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Regarding the nice way the slabs stack/display - that's all fine, but there is so much you will discover about a card once you are looking right at it - gloss, lithography detail, etc. Even my horrid eyes pick up a lot. They look better out of the slab.

When I started collecting 206's I never even really looked at the card, I just went for anything that was in the 1.5-3 range. This was definitely a rude awakening for me b/c I realized paper loss and pen/pencil markings were present on a decent amount of them, not to mention the appeal of the card (which is the primary thing I look at now) was usually gone.

Now that I look at the card as a whole, my collection has much better appeal...had to learn the hard way tho

As of right now, I collect only graded cards...mainly so I don't get burned by trim jobs or have to completely trust Ebay sellers (we know how that goes). Plus by the grade, I know what defects the card may have.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

When I started collecting 206's I never even really looked at the card, I just went for anything that was in the 1.5-3 range. This was definitely a rude awakening for me b/c I realized paper loss and pen/pencil markings were present on a decent amount of them, not to mention the appeal of the card (which is the primary thing I look at now) was usually gone.

Now that I look at the card as a whole, my collection has much better appeal...had to learn the hard way tho

As of right now, I collect only graded cards...mainly so I don't get burned by trim jobs or have to completely trust Ebay sellers (we know how that goes). Plus by the grade, I know what defects the card may have.

Or you could just purchase/trade from people who you trust, or strangers who give refunds for raw cards. You look at it, you be the judge. The problem would only be if you needed to trade/sell it, but that's not really a problem either because you can also give the same deal. That's the old school way of dealing with other hobbyists - trust and fairness.

I recently traded for a T206 that looked like it might have been Tinker'd with on the right side (or did I take a 'Chance'? - I always get these two cards mixed up). I simply asked the trader and he said it was good. I received it, looked at it and was happy. Is it trimmed? I don't think so, and if I ever get rid of it, that's still my opinion. If the next guy who ends up with it thinks it is trimmed, he can give it back to me. It shouldn't ever be any big deal, as long as you are working with good people.

(The more we talk about this, the more I'm considering freeing all my guys)

[2dueces]

Crazy standard. PSA 5 with paper loss but let them find a 1/64" wrinkle with a 100X loop in just the right light and it's a PSA 3. But the system isn't broken just running on 3 wheels.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by Runscott

In fairness to PSA, here's an SGC-graded one that I don't quite get - PSA would only give this a '2', correct? I know at the 3 and under levels, the grading companies don't put much emphasis on corners, but this is quite bad:

SGC 40 T206 Johnson

Originally Posted by freakhappy

All of the corners look good except for the top left...cutting it close.

There's obviously a lot of subjectivity that goes into it. There are many T206 cards in the 30-40 range that you could argue a bump up or down. In the case of the Johnson, sure, you could argue that the corner should bump it from a 40 (3) to a 30 (2). It's one of those cards that should probably be right in between... either an overgraded 40 or an undergraded 30. But the paper loss on that PSA 5 is an entirely different beast. That's a HUGE miss by the grader; I would think that the grading companies would want to get those "off the street."

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by t206hound

There's obviously a lot of subjectivity that goes into it. There are many T206 cards in the 30-40 range that you could argue a bump up or down. In the case of the Johnson, sure, you could argue that the corner should bump it from a 40 (3) to a 30 (2). It's one of those cards that should probably be right in between... either an overgraded 40 or an undergraded 30. But the paper loss on that PSA 5 is an entirely different beast. That's a HUGE miss by the grader; I would think that the grading companies would want to get those "off the street."

It wasn't just the corner - they normally crush cards that are miscut like this, especially if there's anything else wrong with them.