The BCCG problem

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by RobertGT

There are still plenty of novice collectors out there who only look at the numerical grade or have no clue what the Beckett grading scale is all about.

Are you really telling me that they buyers are only looking at the number on the flip, but not looking at the description of the grade which is like 2 millimeters below the number? I just don't buy that. I think they're just stupid.

I keep seeing these phrases like "intent to deceive," "shady as hell" or "preying on begineers" to describe Beckett's business practices. The submitter of the card is getting exactly what they are paying for so I just don't see any of that. They're offering a service which is clearly defined on their website.

It's real simple. If one doesn't like BCCG's system, don't use them.

[RobertGT]

[QUOTE=vintagetoppsguy;966240]Are you really telling me that they buyers are only looking at the number on the flip, but not looking at the description of the grade which is like 2 millimeters below the number? I just don't buy that. I think they're just stupid.

Yes, I am telling you the number 8 or 10 or 7 is the only thing they are looking at and they don't understand how to interpret the language. How else do you explain someone paying $75 for a Joe Montana RC with centering like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120814396149

That's a $35 card. And yes, they may be stupid. Or are they just NOVICES who do not know any better? Not everyone is as advanced in the realm of card collecting as the people on these boards. Best, Rob

[vintagetoppsguy]

Bob,

I gave my fiancee an engagement ring right before Christmas. I didn't just go to the closest jewelry store to my house and blindly pick one at random. I did a lot of research and homework before buying the diamond because I didn't know anything about them. My point is that any buyer (yes, even bb card buyers) should do their homework before making a purchase they know nothing about.

Go to Google and type the words "BCCG grading." Here is the first thing you will see: "BCCG-graded cards (Beckett Collectors Club Grading) are completely separate and vastly different from the premium BGS- or BVG-graded cards." If any novice spent only 1 minute (60 seconds) to research BCCG, that would tell them all they need to know.

If you want to save these morons from themselves, then that is fine. I admire you for that, but as I and others have said, at the end of the day the responsibility is on THEM, not BCCG.

[bosoxfan]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

[B]
I keep seeing these phrases like "intent to deceive," "shady as hell" or "preying on begineers" to describe Beckett's business practices. The submitter of the card is getting exactly what they are paying for so I just don't see any of that. They're offering a service which is clearly defined on their website.

I don't believe Beckett is being dishonest, but I do believe in some of the above examples, the people selling their product are trying to "deceive".

Beckett can offer any service they choose and the consumer can accept it or decline it, but IMO it's a joke.

[Leon]

First of all the top Beckett (grader) guys are advertisers and pretty good personal friends of mine. We all go out to lunch fairly frequently. That being said I have spoken with them at length about their product BCCG. But to start out with, Alan Hagar "invented" the 10 point grading scale, so we can get that bit of trivia out of the way. Secondly, BCCG is in existence mainly for mass merchants that need(ed) a cheaper product to sell in their venues, especially on TV. It has been around for quite some time and it is a part of their business model that they do good with. In this day and age grading companies would be stupid to not do things to increase their profits. I think the only thing they would change is the numbering system, if they had it to do over. Otherwise, the product is a good one for them regardless of what we think. I also don't think it's dishonest or deceitful whatsoever. There's my half cent on it....

[novakjr]

They found a way to put the number 10 on something that deserves and 8 at best. As I said before, I'm fine with the grades they're assigning. And that's really all that ultimately matters. But the number system is f'ed.. They're intentionally catering to people that just wanna see a 10 on their cards. How many times have we all seen BCCG cards listed as BGS 10 or simply Beckett 10 on the bay? Many sellers have the intent to deceive with these, and ultimately the fault lies with the uninformed buyers. But without this service, sellers wouldn't have this outlet for deception. If there wasn't the intent for corruption of the product, they would simply assign a grade and slab it, without the deceptive numbering.. Basically, I can agree that BCCG isn't out to deceive people, but they intentionally sold a product with the full knowledge that it would be corrupted. And honestly, the corruptible nature of these slabs is a huge selling point.

[RobertGT]

Originally Posted by novakjr

They found a way to put the number 10 on something that deserves and 8 at best. As I said before, I'm fine with the grades they're assigning. And that's really all that ultimately matters. But the number system is f'ed.. They're intentionally catering to people that just wanna see a 10 on their cards. How many times have we all seen BCCG cards listed as BGS 10 or simply Beckett 10 on the bay? Many sellers have the intent to deceive with these, and ultimately the fault lies with the uninformed buyers. But without this service, sellers wouldn't have this outlet for deception. If there wasn't the intent for corruption of the product, they would simply assign a grade and slab it, without the deceptive numbering.. Basically, I can agree that BCCG isn't out to deceive people, but they intentionally sold a product with the full knowledge that it would be corrupted. And honestly, the corruptible nature of these slabs is a huge selling point.

+1. Nailed the issue precisely.
My intent was never to issue an indictment of the BCCG grading service, but to explain to the uninitiated how some sellers are using it to sell inferior cards at inflated prices. And many are falling for the trick every day.

[Leon]

Guys, I agree that there are some who will set out to deceive with those cards. We can word it any way we want to but Beckett let the genie out of the bottle several years ago and she won't go back in. As I said, I feel confident that if the execs that are in place today, as opposed to those in place when that whole BCCG thing started were there, the numbering system would be different. I can sort of use the analogy of leaving your keys in your car, unlocked, and having it stolen. It's not your fault someone is a thief but you did enable them to steal. best regards

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Leon

Guys, I agree that there are some who will set out to deceive with those cards. We can word it any way we want to but Beckett let the genie out of the bottle several years ago and she won't go back in. As I said, I feel confident that if the execs that are in place today, as opposed to those in place when that whole BCCG thing started, the numbering would be different. I can sort of use the analogy of leaving your keys in your car, unlocked, and having it stolen. It's not your fault someone is a thief but you did enable them to steal. best regards

The car analogy isn't bad...Although, I'd compare it more to leaving the keys in a borrowed car in the ghetto.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I can agree that BCCG isn't out to deceive people, but they intentionally sold a product with the full knowledge that it would be corrupted.

For decades, scammers have been trimming Topps (or insert another card manufacturer here) baseball cards in order to deceive the buyer into thinking they're getting a card that is of better condition than it actually is (was).

Topps intentionally sells a product with full knowledge that it will be corrupted. Topps is completely at fault as they are enabling the trimmer by continuing to sell their product.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

For decades, scammers have been trimming Topps (or insert another card manufacturer here) baseball cards in order to deceive the buyer into thinking they're getting a card that is of better condition than it actually is (was).

Topps intentionally sells a product with full knowledge that it will be corrupted. Topps is completely at fault as they are enabling the trimmer by continuing to sell their product.

Another bad analogy. With the Topps cards, a physical action must take place beyond Topps' control, before the deception...With BCCG, no other action is needed. Just straight to the deception.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Another bad analogy. With the Topps cards, a physical action must take place beyond Topps' control, before the deception...With BCCG, no other action is needed. Just straight to the deception.

Umm, no. Great analogy. Failure by someone to comprehend. Your statement was, "Many sellers have the intent to deceive with these, and ultimately the fault lies with the uninformed buyers. But without this service, sellers wouldn't have this outlet for deception." So yes, there is an action - it's the sellers listing the cards with deceptive titles and/or descriptions. The cards aren't selling themselves are they?