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#601
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Ot Troll, this is valid name!
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#602
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Fixed it for you.
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#603
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To be clear, BODA has confirmed what many of us already knew, and has perhaps shown the scope was even greater than we thought, but the alterations and the involvement of certain people is far from new.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-27-2021 at 12:32 PM. |
#604
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The issue I have are the conclusions drawn from there about who is guilty of what. So many of their accusations are built on false assumptions about the data they're looking at. Then they build on those invalid conclusions to make even more accusations. It's extremely irresponsible. |
#605
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In other instances or auctions formats, it behoves the bidder to put in a floor bid that is significantly higher than the next required step up in bidding to rule out a lot of non-serious buyers from being involved in the "extended bidding" period or whatever the auction house calls it. The proposal you are talking about requires a lock-tight system where everyone is on the up and up - all other bidders, the auction house - everyone. That's not what we are faced with at all.
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Bram99 You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it eat the dogfood |
#606
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Lol. Yes. They probably do that daily, I would imagine.
I agree. They've definitely blown the lid on how widespread this issue is. |
#607
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I’ve bid 10 or more times in plenty of auctions and on ebay. Why? Could be anything from I was bored, to I didn’t want to pay $2 more than the guy below me, to I wanted to see if the top bidder set an aggressive high bid, to I had too much wine to drink and it was 2 am and it was pointless fun. Can’t always tell why anyone is doing anything.
I wise man said to me a long time ago forget about deciphering someone else’s motivations. You are almost always just guessing based on your preexisting biases. Last edited by Snapolit1; 08-27-2021 at 01:52 PM. |
#608
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Nobodys shilling buy it nows
Just saying
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#609
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There's no shortage of fake buy-it-now sales on ebay.
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#610
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Call me out
eBay could consider calling out known shill bidders.
If shiller bids it shows *bidder has history of shill bidding. Any new accounts they create tag would follow. A fair buyer beware alert from eBay. Shill bidders and pwcc should face long term suspension from eBay. Criminals only stop behavior when it is no longer tolerated. They rarely change behavior on their own. |
#611
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I know this is unpopular to say, but when I see an item on ebay, I decide what I will pay for it, and that is my limit. Whether I'm bidding against someone who, in their heart, wants to win it, or someone who doesn't, really makes not much difference. Of course I don't want a shiller bidding me up, but I'm not going to let him push me past my self imposed limit. Now, if someone shilled me up to my max, placing a bid above mine, then cancelling that bid, then I would complain to ebay and not pay for the item on principle. That is something different than shill bidding. I haven't seen anyone discuss the risk to the shill bidder. Don't some of these guys win stuff frequently enough to make it too risky for them? I mean, I hope that happens because it might tend to discourage the practice. |
#612
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Last edited by drcy; 08-28-2021 at 11:42 AM. |
#613
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The most insidious shill bidders are the ones within or associated with AHs, who either know what other peoples' max bids are, or who have an arrangement with the AH, like the Mastro case. Because in those cases, the shills aren't running the risk of winning and paying; they are therefore not actual bidders. |
#614
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#615
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Breaking news, maybe, I think, I found a PWCC auction, now freed from Mother Ebay, on Auction Report. If this is their much ballyhooed rollout of their independent platform, it is pathetic. Old holdouts from the vault and not much else. The other AH's must be laughing.
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#616
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I wont even be signing up for the platform, better deals for you guys
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#617
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#618
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I think they’re going have Blowout reported sales on their auction.
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#619
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Funny, gone are the days of not having more than one of each card per auction. Must be infinite demand
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#620
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Some days you wonder, don't you, who is consigning all these cards, and who is buying them?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#621
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Should keep the BODA crew busy for the foreseeable future at least. I wonder if they're hiring?
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#622
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Last edited by Snapolit1; 10-05-2021 at 05:56 PM. |
#623
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__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#624
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__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; 10-06-2021 at 08:17 AM. |
#625
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As a buyer on eBay, I will often place snipe bids on an item that far exceeds their market value just to ensure I win that item (although I'm selective about which auctions I employ this strategy on). Obviously, it comes with risk since if others utilize the same strategy, it can be costly. There are a few times where I've had to overpay for an item, but surprisingly, it's an extremely rare occurrence (probably somewhere between 1-3% of the time). There are also a few times where my bid has cost someone else with the same strategy a lot of money. It also leaves me open to getting shilled, but as you may have noticed from some of my other posts, I believe this is nearly a non-factor, but that's a topic for a different thread. From the auction house's perspective though, I think the extended bidding framework yields higher closing prices than the snipe-heavy environment that eBay unintentionally created. Nowadays, eBay is effectively a silent auction site with the vast majority of sports card auctions being won by hidden snipe bids within the final few seconds of an auction. I also think the buyer's premium aspect is an interesting game theory problem. I think initially, buyer's premiums were introduced as the fee that an auction house would charge for selling an item, but in addition, it has since evolved into an illusion aimed at getting people to bid higher because they prey on people's inability to do math. This is evidenced by the fact that some auction houses will charge a 20% buyer's premium but then turn around and give half of that fee back to the consigner. So it's not just a fee for the auction house, it's a way to trick buyers into bidding higher than they otherwise would have. Another intersting game theory problem is that of bidding increment options for the buyer. Some auction houses will allow you to bid in $100 or $250 increments when the current bid is $6,000, whereas the next minimum bid at another auction site is in $1000 increments, forcing you to bid $7,000. This is a double edged sword though, because while you may push the item price higher with larger bid increments, it also comes with the consequence of creating a smaller pool of total bidders who can participate in the extended bidding period because an item might get close to it's full market value after just a handful of bids are placed, causing would-be participants to bow out of the auction before it enters extended bidding. I actually use this strategically to my advantage in the early stages of an auciton if it's an item that I really want. Bidders will often just place one bid on an item in the early stages as a way to sort of bookmark them for the extended bidding period, and not place another bid until the "real" auction begins. But this strategy allows room for more extended bidding participants. Whereas if two people "go at it", bidding each other up back and forth in the early stages, until the item is near its full market value, then it discourages other people from participating in extended bidding. Thus, once the extended bidding session begins, I might only be competing against one or two other bidders instead of 10 or 15. I'm a game theory nerd, so I could go on about this stuff for hours, but I think this post is long enough already lol. |
#626
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#627
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#628
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i don't think some of the AHs do a good job of understanding their bidders' psychology. For example, if a certain % of your customers have to stay in budget, it means that they may be knocked out of some items in OT by deep pocketed players. If every auction has a 'jungle' OT where anyone who has bid on anything can bid on everything, then everyone who has to watch a budget can reallocate their resources to secondary or tertiary items, especially items that close with no bids. I am always stunned that items with no bids close at the end of regular time. Why not leave them up so people who lose on a bunch of other stuff can bid on them rather than passing the lot?
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; 10-08-2021 at 07:54 AM. |
#629
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__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#630
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EDIT to add that I was referring to the 42,000 cards total. The pre-war selection is a tiny fraction of that and doesn't appear to be much more than what we've seen from plenty of other AHs, if even that.
__________________
successful deals with hcv123, rholmes, robw1959, Yankees1964, theuclakid, Brian Van Horn, h2oya311, thecapeleague, Gkoz316, chesbro41, edjs, wazoo, becollie, t206kid, vintageismygame, Neal, bradmar48, iconsportscards, wrapperguy, agrebene, T3fan, T3s, ccre, Leon, wolf441, cammb, tonyo, markf31,gonzo,scmavl & others currently working on: E101 (33/50) T3 set (104/104), complete! T205 set (108/221) '33 Goudey collecting W600s, Walter Johnson Last edited by chadeast; 10-08-2021 at 04:26 PM. |
#631
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They'll find buyers for them all and set more records.
Not long ago auctions would refuse more than one copy of a card. I wouldn't want a competing copy of my consignment.
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#632
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It doesn't strike me as being that much of an outlier when you compare it to their standard monthly ebay auction volume. I think they did something like 35,000 cards in their final month on eBay. And it's been a couple months since they were booted off the platform, so they likely had a backlog of sales stacking up. If you combine their expected eBay volume for the past 2 months, assuming they were still there, that's probably ~70,000 cards. It seems realistic to me that they could have lost ~28,000 of those ~70,000 sales because of the ebay fallout, owning them with 42,000 cards to sell. I'd be surprised though if they have more than 42,000 next month though. I'd guess it will be closer to 30,000 next month. Although surely it'll depend on how well they do in this one. |
#633
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__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... |
#634
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PWCC certainly isn't alone in dong this.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#635
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I set my max and I either win it or I don’t. Either way, this method works for me. And I do not care who does what from a bidding perspective. I win it or I don’t… and the caravan moves on.
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.” U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885 Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets. Senators and Frank Howard fan. I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO. |
#636
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It's possible that this current month still has some amount of backlog in it. Also, I'm not sure how much seasonal effect there is in the expected monthly volume (what does a "normal" November or December look like for them historically?). I would anticipate their expected volume going forward to continue to be in the low 20,000s though each month. It might dip into the high teens if some of this ~24,000 still has some backlog in it though. But if we see it dip below 15,000, then that will be indicative of PWCC struggling on their new platform, and if we see it back up above 30,000, then that will be a sign that the hobby is latching on to them as a viable alternative to eBay and other consignment options. As a data geek, those are the two magic numbers I'd be watching out for (15,000 and 30,000 listings per month). Grabbing my popcorn... |
#637
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A closer look through some of the listings for this month leads me to believe that PWCC is likely seeing some significant withdrawal from their usual consignment base. The offerings for Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Zion Williamson, Luka Doncic, and other big-name stars are fairly lackluster this month. It appears as though much of the good stuff may have begun to migrate elsewhere.
Oh, and for your enjoyment. I found this fun little description for a Goudey Ruth... Quote:
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#638
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And I wonder if some of the most recent offerings perhaps came from a backlog of pre-ebay split consignments that just hadn't been listed yet?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#639
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I'm saving my money for some Nike nft's. I want to be wearing a nice pair of Jordans as I jog thru the metaverse Now as he Jogs thru the Metaverse he can Imagine seeing it in your PWCC Vault every day
__________________
Thanks all Jeff Kuhr https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/ Looking for 1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards 1917-20 Felix Mendelssohn Babe Ruth 1921 Frederick Foto Ruth Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs 1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson 1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson 1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson 1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph |
#640
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What do you guys think the over/under should be for how long it takes PWCC to mint their first batch of NFTs? I bet Brent is researching how to do it right now. |
#641
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Can one trim or recolor an NFT?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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