|
#51
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: barrysloate
Dan- I have heard stories like that many times. The big auction houses get great prices for top drawer material, but they are not the right venue for less expensive items. Unfortunately, many collectors don't realize this. They think the bigger the auction house, the higher the prices. But they don't think through the whole process, and end up disappointed. |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: JK
Corey - perhaps I misread your original post. However, Im still not sure I agree completely. I think if Bill Gates, who obviously has the means, also had the willingness to bid individually on the lot, but nevertheless chose to join the group anyway (be it for convenience, a sense of being part of a team, or any other reason) that there would be nothing illegal about that. |
#53
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Barry, I know I'm not talking T206 Wagner prices, but there were programs in that lot that routinely bring over $1,000 each on ebay - NU v Notre Dame, NU vs Oklahoma (First game), et cetera. It was definitely the wrong venue, but the consignor was powerless to do anything about how they lotted up the auction. I'm not sure there is anyone at Mastro that would even know what kind of prices those items would bring anyway. |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: SC
You can consider that what the buyer/leader of the group (whomever actually places the bid and writes the check to the auction house) - he is basically preselling the other items on an if. "OK guys, if I win this lot, will you buy x y and z cards for $$xx or xx% of the final bid price, up to a maximum amount." |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
JK, |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: Anonymous
OK - let's change the fact pattern a little bit. Five of us from this board get together and agree that rather than bid against each other for a lot we know that we all want- we agree to let one of us be the high bidder at an agreed price. Now, let's assume our chosen high bidder wins the lot- but we have not made a previous arrangement as to how we will divide up the lot between the five of us. Instead we meet once the lot has been received and we "re-auction" each card individually between ourselves letting the high bidder take each card- with any profit beyond the original investment being split between all of us. That sounds pretty bad- right? So how do we know when a grounp forms- despite their stated good inentions- that this could not actually be what is occuring? |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
Phil-NY, |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: Bob
Any prosecuting attorney/district attorney who even contemplated charging someone with criminal fraud or conspiracy who participates in a "group" buying baseball cards in an auction needs to go back to law school and also develop a thick skin because he will be the laughingstock of his peers and ridiculed by anyone with a triple digit IQ. |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: Anthony S.
Bob, |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: Bob
LOL. |
#61
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: Jim VB
Hey, as that seller of the "Coligan Wanger" said the other day "Don't Think Hundreds Think Thousands! Or At Least Mid Hundreds To A Thousand Maybe A Little More! |
#62
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
Bob, |
#63
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: JK
Corey - Im not an antitrust lawyer, but my understanding is that private parties have the right to bring civil actions for antitrust violations under the Clayton Act. I believe any such party would have to be able to show a violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act to succeed on such a claim - a difficult task in my opinion. |
#64
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: JK
By the way, I dont think there is anything wrong with openly soliciting a group for purposes of making a profit on a lot. Now, if you somehow were to get your hands on an auction company's bidder list and actively conspired to include every interested bidder on a particular lot in your group for the explicit purpose of restraining trade - then maybe you got something to work with. Short of that, I cant see how a group of bidders hoping to pick up a lot for as cheap a price as possible could amount to illegal activity. |
#65
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
JK |
#66
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: Phil B.
Corey- I think your advice is correct. It only takes one annoyed consignor or auction house to see posts of such planning and gloating and have a closer look taken at the goings on. It is sometimes said that the "appearance of impropriety is as bad as impropriety itself". Well, I sometimes say that anyway. To summarize this thread there are certainly gray areas and it can definitely be a slippery slope. What may start out as innocent "joint venturing" could, with a certain set of facts, fall into illegal conduct. |
#67
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: Matt
Phil - on the positive side, there are also areas (I would suggest most cases) where there is no problem at all of forming groups to bid on lots. |
#68
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: Elm
I'm hoping to assemble a group to bid on a 1989 Topps lot. Any interest? I get the Strawberry. : ] |
#69
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: boxingcardman
Assuming for the sake of argument that a group of customers can combine in restraint of trade, how would you even begin to establish that there had been an actual loss from the combination? It doesn't seem reasonable to me to assume that a group could realistically target a lot for a purchase and profitable break-up. The group doesn't bid in a vacuum. Everyone else who can smell a bargain would be in there too. To get the lot and break it up for profit they would have to win it, which would require them to outbid everyone else targeting the lot for a break-up. If you could get the auctioneer to release the data on the bidders and you took their depositions and asked why they bid what they did, I would expect that most would tell you they didn't think the lot was worth more. You would then be left to argue that the group somehow damaged the seller despite the fact that none of the underbidders was willing to pay as much as the group decided to bid. |
#70
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: Ricky Y
So now that this has been discussed and brought out in the open forum, does that mean that the auction houses will investigate the nature of each auction lot to see if one individual truely bid on the item or if there are mysterious conglomorate of shadow bidders that lurks beneath the face of one? |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
boxingcardman, |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: boxingcardman
From what I've seen of the behavior of registry freaks, they don't play well with others. I think the chances of one of them telling the other "go ahead, take this 10, I'll get the next one" is about as likely as Osama Bin Laden being invited for tea in the Rose Garden. |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
Group purchases in REA, Mastro
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
boxingcardman, |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
coming down to the wire with Mastro and REA | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 20 | 04-30-2008 10:46 PM |
Re: Group purchases in REA, Mastro | Archive | Pre-WWII cards (E, D, M, W, etc..) B/S/T | 3 | 04-08-2008 10:38 AM |
REA v. Mastro | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 38 | 05-20-2007 09:01 PM |
Looking for bidding partners in Mastro and REA | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 21 | 04-15-2007 03:48 PM |
Mastro and REA both up and running... | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 53 | 04-11-2007 06:01 PM |