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#51
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Posted By: jay wolt
What's with all this "If so & so played in NY he'd be in the Hall"? |
#52
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Posted By: Chris Counts
Jay, |
#53
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Posted By: jay wolt
Chris - valid points |
#54
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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm
He probably had a hand in the inductions of Hafey and Haines, if not others. |
#55
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Posted By: Arthur Lobbe
I always have difficulty dealing with the Hodges Klu comparison. Based on the numbers Klu's stand up extremely well (lifetime BA .298-.273) and during a 4 year stretch 1953-56 he was arguably the best 1st baseman in the game. Defensively, Klu won a number of the defensive awards that were given at the time for 1st basemen. However, his career was plagued by injuries and he didn't have the sustenance that Hodges had. He also didn't have Robinson, Campy or Snider. I think Santo deserves induction, however having grown up in the 50's and 60's, for my money Ken Boyer was the best third basemen in the NL over a long period of time. He was an 11X All Star with 6 starts. He was impressive. What a great topic. This can go on forever. |
#56
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Posted By: Chris Counts
Frankie Fritsch did manage to get a few old Cardinals into the HOF, including Jim Bottomley, Jesse Haines and Chick Hafey, all borderline candidates. And I personally consider Leo Durocher a stretch as well. I'm surprised he didn't figure out a way to get Pepper Martin in ... |
#57
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Posted By: John Harrell
My #1 from the list would be Kaat. With 283 wins, a high of 25 in one season, and 16 consecutive Gold Glove awards, he deserves to be in. I'd also include Hodges and Santo, who certainly compares favorably to 3rd basemen already in. |
#58
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Posted By: Bob
Maybe I should amend Oliva's resume to say "if he had played anywhere but Minnesota" instead of "if he had played in New York." The key is that there was no ESPN back then and Twins' players were routinely overlooked by the media and thus the fans. I am old enough to have seen Oliva play in person and I think the comparison to Clemente mentioned above was correct. Tony's struggle with the English language while a player certainly didn't help him either. In this day and age it's hard to imagine Latin players of the 60's not being given their due but with few exceptions, that was the case. I know Killebrew had all the home runs and Puckett the key hits and winning smile and Carew the sweetest swing since Ted Williams, but the best overall player to ever wear a Minnesota uniform was Tony Oliva. |
#59
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Posted By: Sean
I agree with Bob...not that I'm biased to the Twins. |
#60
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Posted By: Mark L
Tony Oliva may make it into the hall, but I don't see what makes him comparable to the great Roberto. Where are Oliva's 12 gold gloves? his MVP award? His 3000 hits? How many times did he carry his team to world series victories? |
#61
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Posted By: Anthony S.
I think voters think of Puckett in a different light than Oliva because his career was ended near it's prime (just past) by a bean ball. There have been a of great players whose careers have been adversely effected by knee injuries (Mantle, DiMaggio, Dawson). Oliva only played more than 70 games in a season 11 times in his career. That's a very short career for a potential HOFer whose career didn't end as a result of tragedy, ala Joss or Youngs. Of course, you saw Oliva play, I assume too many times to count, and I didn't, so your knowledge of his abilities far surpasses mine. |
#62
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Posted By: howard
The comparisons to clemente are obviously only in regard to oliva before injuries curtailed his career. Until then he was as good a hitter as Clemente (significantly better if you compare the first several years of their careers) a better runner and while not as good defensively he did win one gold glove award. While he never led his team to a world championship he did bat.314 w/a .588 slugging average in the post season compared to Clemente's .318/449. |
#63
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Posted By: Mark L
Don't forget that even if Frisch overreached with Lindstrom and Hafey, his buddies on those clubs weren't just ordinary ballplayers. His pals on the NY Giants won four straight pennants (1921-24) without a real ace on their pitching staffs (maybe Artie Nehf) while his cronies on the Cards won three pennants in four years (28, 30, 31). |
#64
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Posted By: Chris Counts
Mark, |
#65
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Posted By: Ron Rice
Out of all the candidates, I'd vote for Ron Santo. |
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