What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth

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Posted By: Alan

What happens when these old-time, high end collectors pass away, the collections (all un-slabbed) go to the children/grandchildren, who may or may not want them. If they don't want them, it all goes (like Frank Nagy's collection) to a huge auction house. (Is Mastro going to get Nagy's stuff graded ???) Eventually, the cards end up in a lot of collections. Bottom line, the family is happy with all the money from the sale, the auction house is happy with HUGE record setting auction prices, and collectors are happy to get the cards....what a great hobby !!!!!!

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

or get up on a high horse and say "only pre-war here." I simply expressed the opionion that older, rarer cards would be more valuable than newer, even much better conditioned, and less rare, ones.

I have no idea what my collection is worth; I casn't quite affored to get it appraised! (but--maybe part--would be in order).

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Posted By: Jay Miller

To those on the Board who don't know Jim you can take it from me, he is a very nice guy. We disagree on this topic but I have tremendous respect for his love of collecting and the quality of his material. Open discussions are wonderful but they should never get personal.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

I have many friends in the hobby and count you among them and I am reminded why.

Jim

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

"I may be wrong about you Jim, but from the last few posts I’ve read you seem like a guy who is more interested in the price tag of a card rather than the card itself, which is a shame."

Totally unfair to Jim. Being passionate about cards and having an awareness and interest in their value are not mutually exclusive. I would venture to say that someone like Hal whose credentials are beyond question is not only passionate about what he collects but also keenly aware of prices and values. As Leon said it is interesting to speculate about the larger collections out there, and Jim it seems to me simply started the discussion by posting some factual information that was publicly available. John, to use your words to me in response to my post on the Dmitri Young thread, "lighten up."

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Thank you Peter.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

John-wonkaticket is a great guy too who ive talked to many times on the phone.In fact the only thing i have against him is the fact he didnt answer the phone when i was trying to call him while lost in Philadelphia.Other than that hes a great guy!

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Posted By: John

Jim once again you take nothing away from what I wrote, I tried to be very diplomatic in my post above giving you once again the benefit of doubt.

Jim try to understand by voicing my opinion, or disagreeing with you is not attacking you. I only voiced how you come off in your posts and if you would read you would notice I said I could be wrong, but I guess I wasn’t.

But if you feel you must play that you were the victim of hostility so be it lets make it worthwhile. Jim I think you come off as a person who likes to live vicariously through the achievements of others and compare yourself to them. You also seem to be an elitist all the while belittling anyone who doesn’t see it your way or measure up to your high standards. Then when the heat is on you tuck “turtle” in your shell and play the victim.

I don’t know what you want or what you’re problem is Jim but with all the super sized value cards you have one would think you could sell some of them and hire a person to kiss your butt versus expecting us to do it for free.

What is it you want Jim, yes the three gentlemen above having fantastic collections agreed, and so do you! There are you happy now?

Peter, you may be right I could be totally wrong about Jim, but I have the right to my opinion. Also for the record Peter I told you to “Lighten Up” because you implied someone was a racist, that’s a little different than me getting the impression that Jims a tool.

I’m sure I’m the only person here who feels this way about you Jim so I wouldn’t get to worked up.

Regards,

John McDaniel

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Posted By: JimCrandell

John the beliitler(without knowing you),

You are quite the guy considering you don't know me.

I will not respond to the attacks and crap.

Leon--are these attacks on individuals allowed on this board?

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

"Also for the record Peter I told you to “Lighten Up” because you implied someone was a racist"

That is bs and you know it. I said Dan made a remark that while he DIDN'T intend it that way, on its face was capable of being misconstrued. Are you not capable of understanding the distinction?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Jim, if you truily have a love for the cardboard and not the almighty $$$, then please post about cards rather than how much something is worth. Talking about the $$$ only shows that you care more about $$$ than the cards.

You says you don't want to see a class warfare fight, but you know what, creating a post like this is a self fulfilling prophescy since the majority of collectors here are of modest means. You start flashing big $$$ around and youa re bound to piss people off. Basically, you started the class warfare here, not John or anyone else.

For some reason, if These guys you admire were to show up and post, I don't anyone be mad at them because they have valuable collections, unless they do nothing, but talk about the value of their collection. All you have to do is look at the people that post regualarly on this board with what I would consider equally impressive collection and no one here hates them becuase of the value of their collection becuase they talk about how much their cards are worth.

Talking about $$$ may be fine and good over at the CU boards, but around here, you are not going to get a warm reception for doing it. So try sticking to just cards and if you have a desire to talk about $$$, take it on over to the CU boards.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Wesley

I agree with John and Jay 100 percent. Jim might be a nice guy but he seems to enjoy posting just to create controversy. Several people have emailed me that this is the reason why he has been banned and removed from a number of other hobby forums.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Jay,

Have never spoke about the value of my collection once.

If discussions like this are off limits despite what Leon said then fine.

Hate to say it but the people I was warned about here as being hostile are the same ones attacking me.

I don't like to post where I am attacked and if it is allowed then good luck guys--but I don't need it. Go back to believing that graded cards are evil and "wealthy" collectors
are in it just for the money.

And for the record I started this post as a reply to WP on another post and included this publicly available data to illustrate my point.

Jim

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Posted By: Marc S.

Jim:

Your question is not an easy one to answer - as has been lengthily debated here. The key issue, as I see it, is one of disclosure. Charlie, Marshall, Don Louchios, Don Spence and a handful of others [yourself included] have very public collections that lend themselves to both liquidity and comparability. I think some of your $$$ amounts are probably understated, given the strength seen in certain of those sets in the last 2-3 years.

That being said - there is a whole aspect of the hobby that is left undisclosed. There are numerous collectors out there - more raw, but some graded - that simply do not want to be a public persona and have their collection flaunted on a Registry or elsewhere. One cannot simply discount that these do not exist because we do not see them on a Registry.

And, you must also consider that high-grade is not the end all of investment. There was a rumour going around the National this year of a raw set that would be considered extremely low-grade by your standards that sold for in excess of a million dollards. One only need to look at Rob Lifson's auctions or many of the Mastro lots over the past few years to see the extreme strength paid for many exceptionally rare pre-war pieces, regardless of grade.

You cannot fail to include Keith Olbermann's collection simply because it is not known. It is generally regarded the strength of collection he has for Old Judges and many rarer, test type sets. There are numerous collections out there where low-grade commons from each set would yield thousands each - and many of the people here are at least aware of who some of those collectors are.

Also - perhaps baseball cards is a too narrow a category. Marshall's original baseball photography collection is unparalleled to my knowledge - and Brian Seigel has an extremely extensive game-used bat collection. Those factors can add millions to any estimate.

Jim - you are absolutely right that Charlie, Marshall and Don own the best graded sets of many of the major sets of the pre-war and 1950s era. That being said - there is inadequate information to make conclusions about much else. What is the potential value of an N172 set with most of the known poses? Or a large run of N173s? I could not presume to know - but I can say that based upon the thousands paid for rare poses in Poor condition - those sets are worth a ton of money.

It is easy and fun to debate the value of these liquid, known collections like Charlie and Marshall. Unfortunately, all we know is that these analyses are incomplete because of the numerous, very advanced collectors who have been building world-class collections long before grading was a known factor.

~ms

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Posted By: tobacco-r-us

Vintage discussion at it's best.
The actual title should be:

"Collectors/Investors Portfolios In Denial"

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Posted By: warshawlaw

who cares whose collection is the most valuable? The debate is a silly one at the outset.

You cannot even begin to assess that issue because so many non-participants in the registry thing have collections of cards that are rare and impossible to replace at any price. I'd hazard a guess that at least three or four of the folks on this board own cards that are 1 of a kind or have fewer than five known specimens. Whether those collections are "worth" more than the slab-heads' 1950s plastic is academic since we will never, ever know the answer. You might as well debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Serious question:

Are there "rare art" or "rare coin" or "rare antique" web sites where people go to argue about whose collections are worth the most??

Just curious.

If so, then I guess that this is a topic whose discussion is inevitable and should be expected on any such collector's website.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I don't know what it's present day "value" would be, especially after sprucing up some of the sets and slabbing them, but I have to think the James Copeland collection has yet to be topped in terms of significance, scope, or $$$$$

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Posted By: John

You were warned about me? I made the list wow I feel privileged, do you know what number I was on the list by any chance? I would really like to know what my overall weighted evil rank was 8.2, 7.3 etc.


“Go back to believing that graded cards are evil and "wealthy" collectors
are in it just for the money.”

Jim I don’t think anyone has said that in this post. Did you even read what I wrote here it is again just in case.


Do some wealthy collectors get type cast as investors over real collectors sure, and some people I’m sure rightfully fit the investor mold.

Jim you and many others have come to the defense of the “wealthy” collector saying it’s unfair to belittle these particular collectors motives and passions. Yet in the very next breath you and others belittle anyone who hasn’t jumped on your bandwagon of grading and pop-reports by saying you need proof that these collections exist and are in fact real. That is just as offensive and narrow minded as to say anyone with money who collects does not love the hobby, would you not agree?

Jim don’t ever leave the board, you’re so adorable I could just eat you up!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

after all, we collect friggin' toys with pictures of guys named Pee Wee, Whitey, Yogi, Mickey, Billy, etc. It doesn't exactly scream out "maturity".

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

a little incendiary around here huh?

Leon's got a Four Base Hits Kelly in a SGC40 or so holder--right? One card, probably worth 100K (give or take 30) but it's not PRISTINE condition--right? I just wonder if some of these POP people even know what a Four Base Hits card is?

Granted a PSA10 1952 Topps Mantle is a BEAUTIFUL card worth probably 300K or more (last one sold at around 275K--right?) but the possibility (not probability) that there's more of them out there is WAY more than there being ANOTHER Four Base Hits Kelly in ANY condition.

There are people who've posted in this thread who probably have well more than $5 Million in ungraded cards. There are regular contributors to this board who DEFINITELY have more than that. Neither Olberman nor Frisch contribute but I have no doubt that they have MANY millions of dollars worth of cards. They just have different methods of collecting than do some of the afforementioned collectors who are very open with their collections on the set registry.

The PSA (and SGC) registry has done just what it was supposed to do....get people to invest more and more in grading cards, so they can display their collections in a great tool that makes some of these collections very visible for all to see.

There are still tons of people out there who have MANY cards that aren't graded, aren't in the POP reports (which are inaccurate at best) that, as Jay said, will never be graded nor disclosed until their death (if then). Some of these folks do not need to advertise their collections, don't want the attached notoriety nor do they want their collections to be wide open for inspection/theft/etc.

Doesn't make EITHER group of people any less important or collections less valuable......

Just my opinion.....

p.s. there's even probably people who have new, shiny refractor card collections that are worth millions.......

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

BCD's - hands down!

Seriously, as much as we bash his grading, I would give anything to be able to see Fritsch's entire collection. I am certain he has cards none of us have ever seen and several we didn't even knew existed! I agree with Jay and others - rarity trumps a numeric grade any day with me!

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Posted By: jay behrens

I too would love know where I rank on your evil meter.

according to this one http://home.att.net/~slugbutter/evil/

How evil are you?

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Jim, I finding it interesting that you tell me, John andothers not to rush to judgement about you becuase we don't know, yet you've done that exact same thing in regards to us. You are so full of contradictions, it's not even funny.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: WP

The fact that a large portion of the value of these collections are 50s cards highlites the absurdity of Jims argument. The market is shifting, like it or not, away from the PSA 9 50's commons insanity towards the truely rare truley great pieces. Once the handful of PSA collectors get the commons they need, the value decreases substantially ala 51 Bowman PSA 9, 55 Topps PSA 9.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

This thread started out with promise and I think it is an interesting topic. Unfortunately, there's too much emotion involved when it comes to cards and money. That being said, I think we should all be thankful that we don't need our collections to eat or live off of. The sick thing about our collections - no matter how expensive they may be - is that unlike a money market account, the thought of liquidating them for cash is revolting. So if your set is worth 100 bucks or a million, selling it in order to live a better life will be countered by the nausea of having to sell it.

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Posted By: leon

I just re-read most of the 74 posts here. My take as moderator of the board is that it's a fine subject to talk about. I don't see major, immature bashing of Jim here, just responses to responses. I don't see anyone's family members being talked about, people using 4 letter cuss words, or anything like that. If we can't say something like "I think you're a cry baby rich kid" or " you don't know what you are talking about" or etc...then this place wouldn't be as good as it is. It is very open on purpose and I plan on keeping it that way. At the same time I don't want folks starting old fights all over again, as evidenced earlier today, when I deleted a post. As moderator of the board I don't think it's my right to tell folks what to post about or not...as long as it's within the scope of the board or is one of those ocassional off topic threads, which are permitted by board participants. Trust me...for every one person that doesn't like some controversy there are 3 that like it. I am somewhat in the middle. I think Jim is probably a good guy, and a valued board participant, but opened a can of worms here. Most of us are on modest budgets so some folks could get offended about talking about values and prices.

edited for spelling

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Posted By: Mark Holt

Leon I resent your claiming collection rank #20043 as I believe my wonderful collection holds that spot. My Yugi-oh cards put mine over the top.

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Posted By: will watson

"Those aren't vintage card collectors; they are collectors who have some vintage cards."

what a ridiculous statement.

are they passionate about the hobby? check
do they collect prewar? check

i thought those two points shaped the definition of a "vintage card collector." they focus on a narrow range of sets in high grade....so what? do you have to collect everything in every grade to be considered a vintage card collector?

tell me, Jay....what do you collect? if you don't say "anything and everything vintage," you're merely a collector who has some vintage cards. nothing more.

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Posted By: DJ

Did anyone ask Hal how much he paid for the T206 Honus Wagner?
Out of the 60+ thread additions, it was all congratulatory on achieving an amazing feat and putting himself into a limited group. Outside of the occasional "did you see what this sold for?", am I wrong or does the Board rarely like to talk about "the worth of cards" when they discuss their personal collections per say.

When someone wants to share a card with the Forum members, does anyone ask what they paid for it or what they thought it was worth? Do you think that any of us take a calculator to our collections monthly to try and figure out where we stand in "our portfolio"?

I don't have the slightest idea how much my collection is worth and I could really care less. Disposable income goes in that direction and I haven't really obtained anything "good" in a long while and merely playing the waiting game (and saving) for cards on my wish list.

I think that's why Jim's thread rubbed people the wrong way. I could care less what Charlie's collection is worth as I could care less what my neighbor takes in yearly or how much Brad Pitt makes on his latest movie. These things don't concern me in life and as a collector.

Just my two cents....

DJ

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Posted By: will watson

oh, and to the people who argue that there are many ungraded high end sets and singles in private collections....

true, there probably are. but it won't matter at all unless they come up for sale. and most collectors (i'm making an assumption here) will probably hold on to their raw collections for many years to come. if they never see the light of day, they might as well not exist. of course if these guys decide to grade their cards and flood the market, the high grade/low pop values will plummet.

i must ask: what would happen if everyone holding their E107's decided to cash in and sell? the market would become flooded (relatively, of course) and E107's would significantly decrease in price. on of the reasons those cards are so damn rare is because most are tucked away in private collections.

same with high grade/low pops

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Posted By: David Smith

Hello,

I would like to know what he paid for the Wagner, not to see how much Hal or his collection is/might be worth but to see what the market says a Wagner is worth. I wont ask, however, because my Mother taught me it is rude to do such a thing!

I wish there were a Registry where certain high profile cards (like the Wagner) were listed, who the owner and previous owners were and how much it sold for each time it traded hands.

There is a certain car that I like (1938 Talbot-Lago) of which only 9 or so were made and they have both the Serial numbers and the previous owners listed, if known.

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Posted By: Marc S.

Will-

There are millions of dollars of vintage [pre-war] cards that come up for sale every year. Rob Lifson and Mastro seem to handle a few million a piece in pre-war cards.

I think your analysis about E107s is slightly incorrect. If any set had all the owners sell, of course supply would be saturated. That being said - I think there is sufficient demand out there for E107s relative to supply to not worry about relative price decreases. The same cannot be said for other vintage pre-war sets. There are frankly less E107s out there than there are any of the T-206 "toughies".

There is sufficient liquidity in the market. As prices rise, and some collectors age - some decide to sell. Where else can such vintage treasures be unearthed every 3 months in Mastro and annually by Lifson and others?

If you believe in the free market - and generally believe that there are few out there hoarding any specific card or set - they you would have to believe that prices as they are today are "in line" with where they should be. In that context, a VG E107 card is often worth more than a NM T-206 counterpart. The same can be said for numerous vintage sets that are not named T-206 or Cracker Jack.

~ms

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

I think that somewhere, there is somebody who has a monster collection that's been buying things privately for years and years, and none of us geniuses have any idea who it is - but HE/SHE has the most valuable collection out there.

But in terms of known quantities, there are five guys that are being mentioned over and over again - however, I think we owe a look at the collection of the gentleman who has the largest presence on the SGC registry, as in my opinion, it ranks right up there with any of the people that have been mentioned in this thread.

-Al

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Posted By: tobacco-r-us

The 1952 Topps Mantle closed at today?

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Marc and others,

If you have better estimates for set values I will update the above information--pass along the information. I'm sure some will love the updated data.

On the request of one of the board members, I am going to put out a regular vintage card graded price update and the value of different collectors pre-war sets. This is done as a result of one of my attackers demands that I do not talk about pricing and values of collections. I am also taking requests so I can up with a comprehensive list of things we do not want him to talk about--ought to be a lengthy list.

Jim

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Posted By: T206Collector

Can I just get something off my chest -- I really dislike PSA. I have a genuine distate for the PSA product and label. I don't like the little red paper insert and I do not like the semi-transparent holders (do not get me started on the occasional plastic baggy). I also do not like that little PSA logo found in the corner. From their crap holders, to their inconsistent grading, to the people who live in the Matrix of the PSA Set Registry (there are no cards worth owning that are not already PSA graded), it is all just so evil and pretentious.

And I think that's basically my problem. When I read a post about the value and good will that PSA brings to the world it makes me have to run from the room screaming before I mash my keyboard into my computer monitor. They are precisely what you would not want from a grading company if you were going to start one tomorrow from scratch. This is the most obvious thing in the collecting world -- the white elephant in the corner. And yet, because they have critical market share, it's like the big corporate monopoly that continues to keep steamrolling. But how anyone can continue to get behind such a vision is really beyond me.

The problem is that there are people out there who have spent millions of dollars on the PSA product, that got too deeply invested in PSA before SGC started and before the real problems with PSA began to arise. These people cannot afford to get their cards out of PSA -- or at least, it would be very costly to get such a valuable collection out of PSA. So it stays there, perched at the top of a PSA set registry somewhere for all the world to see and marvel at.

Only I don't marvel. All I can think of is that when I sent my 40 PSA graded T206 cards in to SGC for crossover status, only 30 made the cut. The other 10? Well, there was a trimmed card and a number of PSA 5's amd 6's that actually had creases that didn't get crossed over either. I hadn't seen the creases until SGC put a big black circle around them (through a plastic sheet of course). Trouble is, PSA didn't see them either -- or didn't care.

So, when I see a PSA set registry, the first thing that comes to my mind is, "I wonder which 25% of those cards were trimmed or have creases." I can't escape it.

And that is why I do not ascribe any certain value to a PSA collection. And that is why I do not buy PSA cards without having them immediately crossed over into an SGC holder.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Uh oh. As if this thread were not already long and controversial enough, I think we are now going to have the PSA vs. SGC debate for the tenth time at least.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

T206 Collector,

Interesting....and when I see cards not graded I say I wonder how many times that has been submitted and was rejected for grading and who is going to be the sucker that will actually buy the card.

I agree that SGC is a better grading company than PSA. In fact I would rate PSA 3rd behind GAI. My friend Dave Forman has done a first class job since he took over.

Where you are missing something is why collectors with large graded card collections don't switch companies.

I would represent that collectors with large PSA graded card collections could cross their collections over to GAI for a nominal price. The publicity alone would be worth it for GAI. But with some exceptions(Dmitri for one and one of Marshall's sets) they haven't.

Jim

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Posted By: cmoking

Jim, I'm surprised by your comments about GAI. Let me ask a question to help see what you mean: do you think the average 1934 Goudey card in a GAI 8 holder is roughly equal to an average 1934 card in a PSA 8 holder?

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Cmoking,

No I don't. It is at a discount.

What I am saying is GAI would likely do a PSA/GAI conversion of a major collector's collection at a nominal price due to the publicity value.

Jim

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Posted By: leon

Hey guys,
Let's reel this thread back in. When it jumps to the top and then you pull up the 80 posts and see it has nothing to do with the original topic, it can be frustrating....not that I necessarily want to go back to this original topic.......thanks a lot

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Cmoking,

Per Leon, I think you ought to start another thread on this one. It is an interesting topic and I will answer on a separate thread.

Jim

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Are you measuring the value in dollars???


I kinda like to think of the history of the little pieces of paper. I like a Johnson T206 with a pin-hole... did a kid see Johnson pitch?? Did his cigarette smoking uncle take him to the game and buy him that card?? The value is more than what a catalog, or eBay, or a registry indicates.

I enjoy holding a card in my hand that is contemporary with when a player played... so I'm slightly annoyed that my only Connie Mack card is an E96, after his playing days. The value isn't "what I could sell it for", it is the enjoyment I get from possession, from sharing it with others on occasion, from the sense of history... I can look at the Mack card, and a T206 of Mr. McGraw, and I imagine this big long complicated family tree of managerial skill and style. Frisch played for McGraw. Durocher played for Frisch. Westrum played for Durocher. It isn't accidental, this baseball knowledge and skill.

So quantify the value in dollars if you must. I wouldn't sell my M116 Tillie Shafer card for ten times book value. Wasn't he fine bench help for Mr. McGraw in 1912!

As for plastic, it is not a tomb. These guys in plastic are not dead. A few years ago I added a hack saw to my collecting tools. I try to not buy cards in plastic prisons, but occasionally I do. And I carefully consider each little guy's charges, deem them wrongfully convicted, then free them from their prison. Screw the population counts! Free the innocent!

Frank.

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

Yep. I do. I also like raw.

I can see a value in doing a graded set, and I can see a value in keeping a set raw. I have both.

There are, in my opinion, a few primary reasons why people who have sets graded with PSA choose to keep them that way:

1) They like them, OR
2) They think that the PSA slab makes the card more liquid, OR
3) They appreciate the third-party condition assessment, and want to stick with the market leader, OR
4) They realize that if they crossed their PSA sets, a large portion of the grades would drop and they would be out a lot of money.

At the same time, there are, in my opinion, a few primary reasons why people who HATE grading prefer to keep their sets raw:

1) They like them OR
2) They think that the slab takes all the fun and passion out of the hobby, and turns a great hobby into a commodities exchange, OR
3) The fact that a "3" can have sharp corners and a clean surface, and another "3" can look like it got hit by a truck is awfully frustrating OR
4) They realize that if they put their cards in holders, many of their "Near Mint" cards would find themselves in EX holders, and they would be out a lot of money.

Personally, I could not care less who has the most valuable collection, and I even regret making my prior post about the SGC guy. The reality is that it really doesn't matter - I learned a long time ago that there's always someone out there who is richer, bigger, stronger, faster, better. Rather than looking around, I prefer to look forward.

For the record, I have seen Jim Crandell's card collection. It is assembled and displayed with a passion and a love for the hobby that is matched by very few people that I've run across in the hobby. There are items in it that would shock you if you heard what they were, and I think those items speak volumes about his love for this hobby - but Jim's collection is Jim's business, and it's not my place to discuss it here or anywhere else. However, I will beg to differ with anyone who insinuates that Jim is not as passionate about collecting as anyone else, and I will be right.

At the same time, I have seen many others who collect pre-war beaters - or modern ones, for that matter - who know as much and care as much about the hobby as anyone. Regardless of what anyone says, there are tons of high-grade raw cards out there, and raw collections sell for top dollar all the time. In terms of the liquidity of the rare prewar stuff, all you had to do was take a look at Tik & Tik or Scott Brockelman's tables in Chicago to see exactly how strong the market is for that type of stuff.

What this discussion ALWAYS comes down to, in my opinion, is the part of human nature that causes people to think that THEIR way is the RIGHT way. It is so strong in this hobby that it creates enemies of people, it gets people kicked off message boards, and it causes arguments that will never, ever end.

Ask Charlie Merkel and Keith Olbermann which of their collections are more valuable. I'll bet that both of them have the same response: "Who cares?"

-Al

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

Sorry, Leon, I didn't see your post until after my lengthy rant was over.

I hate hijacking threads.

-Al

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Posted By: RC McKenzie

Howdy, Jim. We don't have class systems in America. From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations as they say..

I wanted to go on record that I have outbid Larry Fritsch on ebay before. It was for some scrubby card and I think I was 3rd underbidder and he was fifth.

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Posted By: David Vargha

All I can think of is that when I sent my 40 PSA graded T206 cards in to SGC for crossover status, only 30 made the cut. The other 10? Well, there was a trimmed card and a number of PSA 5's amd 6's that actually had creases that didn't get crossed over either. I hadn't seen the creases until SGC put a big black circle around them (through a plastic sheet of course). Trouble is, PSA didn't see them either -- or didn't care.

But the point is, you didn't see them either. So I guess your beef with PSA is that they charge to miss creases, whereas you don't. So I am left wondering two things -- 1. How is it you purchased these card, looked at them (maybe even submitted them) and missed the creases? and 2. Why does it matter? If you were happy with your cards when you bought them, why should you be any less happy because PSA or SGC said the same or said something else? In fact, aren't you falling into the same $ trap that people claim Jim is in when you get upset because one third-party evaluates your cards to be more or less "valuable" than does another?

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

To whomever asked what do I collect. literally it is a little bit of everything vintage since I am trying to acquire one card over every major leaguer that appeared on a card from 1908-45. The only modern cards I have in my collection are my childhood 1971 and 1972 Topps sets. I do buy the occasion pack of new cards just to take care of the occasional jones to open a pack, but that's it.

I work 10 hour shifts that generally boring, so I get a lot of time to think which can be good or bad. I realized, as someone else pointed out, that not one person asked Hal how much payed and I can't recall the last time someone made a post bragging about how much they spent (usually what a great deal they got) or how valueable a card is.

What impresses people here is knowledge and the advancement of that knowledge. When is the last time someone on the CU board made an announcement that they discoved an uncatalogued card or could prove that the date of issue of a set was wrong? These are things that impress people around here. Hell, I've got a collection that would rank dead last on your beloved registry, but I am pretty sure I've contributed far more to hobby in the past year in the form of uncatalogued cards and new variations than everyone combined on the registry.

The people at the top of the registry have impressive collections, but what have they really contributed to the hobby besides ever increasing prices? This board is about knowledge, not $$$.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

My contribution to this useful and informative thread that has added so much to the hobby.

-Ryan