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#51
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Aaron, do you think I like eating crow? I'm eating it....I was wrong on this bat. Robert Plancich posted things to this board as if they were fact that were shown to us with hard evidence to just be flat out wrong. Mastro nor SCDA were set up to give us a tour for this....I asked them for a tour. I sincerely hope that this does go to court now so the rest of you will be able to see the evidence for yourselves. For now you can take your snarky comments and shove 'em up your ass. |
#52
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
"For now you can take your snarky comments and shove 'em up your ass." |
#53
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Your confusing kissing SCDA's ass with forming an opinion based on facts. I knew that there were going to be some people who were not going to change their minds no matter what. I got Robert's side of the story here on Network 54, and I went to Chicago and got the other side of the story. I formed an educated opinion. You on the other hand have not. You have only made assumptions about me and the others involved. You're an anonymous ******* posting on the internet. Hardly worth my time. Carry on. |
#54
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)
Dan, I think you should chill. In one of if not your first posts on this thread you take a shot at anyone who would call this a dog and pony show. Well, the only one to use that term is your fellow traveler Jay, who used it in the first line of the first post. So too Jay takes swipes at those who have formed a different opinion on the bat, or who even question the presentation you were given, claiming that your integrity is being impugned. At least he doesn't tell folks to shove it--does that make you feel better? |
#55
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
Dan, what's with all the name-calling? I just don't know why you are so ashamed of yourself. With everything they were throwing at you guys, it's easy to understand how you could be so manipulated. |
#56
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Nuff Sed
How about it Jay, your video recording will speak for itself. |
#57
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)
if they haven't already, and that's examining Mr. Henrich's past. I truly am not here to pick on a 93 year old, especially as I am a Yankees fan who loves reading about those old great teams. Still, has anyone looked at his activities over the past 25 years or so? A streak bat would have been a very hot and valuable commodity for at least that long. |
#58
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Dan Bretta
The "dog and pony show" comment goes back to a thread started a few weeks ago. The video is a sticking point as I would like to see unedited video of that and I'm sure that is something that will be subpeonaed if this goes to court. As I said earlier I still would not have given this bat an A-10, but there was so much thrown around in this forum that was just plain wrong about a lot of things. The pbor's are still owned by H&B and Bushing only has copies of them and he doesn't even have all of the records. He does have access to them though. It was said that he paid $30,000 to the Henrich family for the bat. That was wrong. Much of this stuff was printed by Michael O'Keefe in the New York paper. It was said that Mastro was misleading in how they characterized the relationship between DiMaggio and Henrich and their is no evidence to show this. |
#59
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
Todd: Those are interesting points. My question, however, would be why Henrich only remembered after the bat was purchased by Dave Bushing? |
#60
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Great questions Aaron. You would have the answer to both of those had you been there. But since you're arranging a visit with them at the National I'll let SCDA answer them for you. |
#61
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Rob L
This is great!! |
#62
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
"This forum should be proud that they helped foster change in the hobby regarding disclosure of ownership of authenticated items." |
#63
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Aaron, you are wrong on at least one of your assertions. I won't tell you which one though because my opinion was bought and paid for with a free lunch and a tour of Mastronet that was well worth spending half a day in various airports for. You'll just have to find out for yourself at the National. |
#64
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
Well, I wouldn't hold your breath--Troy's stopped responding to my e-mails. |
#65
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: My Outfield
Todd, I have a ball that was authgraphed about fourteen or more years back, collected over a period of different card shows by me. |
#66
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: PASJD
Perhaps someone from one of the auction houses or their proxies will answer this. Why can't they simply disclose, before the fact, and not in fine print, all instances where the consignor and the authenticator are the same person. I understand, based on something I believe Jay said, that there just isn't enough money in authentication to make a living, and I accept that. So if authenticators must also purchase and sell items, so be it. But why not follow a practice of full disclosure, and let the buyers decide whether or not they care that the consignor has authenticated his own items? Last time I posed this question in a thread where someone (was it Mr. Martinez?) was defending the auction houses, it never was answered. It does not appear to have been answered, or even asked as best I can tell, in connection with the recent "trip," although in fairness it arguably was beyond the scope of the trip. But WHY? What is the answer? Anyone? |
#67
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Check One
Under what category does The SCDA trip fall under? |
#68
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Giants00
Jay, |
#69
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Dan Bretta
The explanation they gave to us was that they do a lot of business with different auction houses and they don't want to have to explain to one auction house why they consigned a certain item to that house instead of theirs. Take that for what it's worth. |
#70
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: shellyjaffe
I find it amazing that in one day the good guys are bad guys and the bad guys are know the good guys. I think the courts should decide who is right or wrong. I also think that the auction houses are at fault when they sell items from the people that authenticate and own that same item. That is truly a conflict of interest. This thread is like being on the streets of New York and playing Three Card Monte. Now you see it Now you dont. My question would be how, in less than a day, can you make up your mind? |
#71
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Lee Behrens
Dan and Jay have covered pretty much everything that happened at the meeting. The responses by the handful here were expected. The big fact that swayed me towards this being a Streak bat was the fact that the bat a a wieght on the bottom of the bat and had to be specifically asked for and was added to the notes on the order, a lomited number were ordered this way (22 I believe). The time frame of the bat order and when the bat receieved by HEinrich is what conviced me that There is a very strong possiblity that it is a streak bat. I also do not believe it should not have got a A10. There is NO definitive way of authenticating memoribilia, but there is alot of strong eveidence indicating that this is a streak bat. |
#72
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: PASJD
So the policy of nondisclosure is set not by the auction houses but by the authenticators themselves, and the purpose is to keep the identity of their consigned items a secret from the other auction houses? Well, I guess it an explanation, although a purely self-interested one and not one I find satisfactory given the consequence to the consumer. But thanks for shedding light on it Dan. |
#73
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Rob L
Conspiracy theories will always be around, however, it sounds like that the evidence points to a streak bat. Did Bushing mess up initially by not researching things enough? Probably. Was there financial gain for him once it was determined to be a streak bat? Yes. Can an interview with a 93 year old be sketchy? Of course. But when everything is weighed together, it does seem to point to one conclusion. |
#74
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Lee Behrens
Can anyone name an auction house that does not have there own authenticators? is this not a conflict of interest? How many of you that question these auction houses purchase from them? I do not like all there policies but the chose is boycott or buy. We are all skeptics but lives a risk, the best way to get by is to educate yourself to make the decisions you feel comfortable with. |
#75
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
"Can anyone name an auction house that does not have there own authenticators? is this not a conflict of interest? How many of you that question these auction houses purchase from them?" |
#76
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Rob L
Just as an aside, sniping at the Jay, Lee and Dan is a little ridiculous when Jay offered on several threads and the chat room sessions, to post any question that anyone had regarding the bat. Posting questions that they were not asked to check on is a little ridiculous at this time. |
#77
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: steve
I was under the impression that the three of you were acting as our representatives or journalist of sorts and we're going to provide an accurate account of the meeting. |
#78
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: steve
Robert Edwards Auctions does not have in house authenicators. They require two seperate grading opinions and describe the item based on that information. The most accurate, professional run sports auctions on this planet. |
#79
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Bill Cornell
I'm an impartial party on this issue, in that I have no interest in acquiring game-used memorabilia and strongly doubt I ever will. I know Dan, Lee & Jay went in as non-believers and came out convinced that there was significant merit to the claims of Dave Bushing and SCDA. Were they hoodwinked by the bright lights? It doesn't sound like it to me, and I say that after I spoke to Jay today to get more info. I think they were shown some compelling evidence. |
#80
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: davidcycleback
I wish to thank Jay, Lee and Dan for taking the efforts of going to Mastro. As has been noted, there were 5 spots offered here on this very board quite a while ago to take the trip and only these three chose to go. |
#81
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Lee Behrens
The question I now an answer to is that we received airline ticket (pd by SCDA), transportation to Mastro,a bottle of water at Mastro, they let us use there bathrooms (really nice),lunch, that included a beer, Old Mastro catalogs that wirhed a ton and Dan Knoll scraped me up a Mastro magnifying glass out of his cars and transportation back to the airport. That is the extend of anything of monetary value that they sent our way. |
#82
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
"Ijust don't understand the response that tell us how we were suppose to handle ourselves the questions to ask when everyone single one of us had a chance to go and handle it our own way." |
#83
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Lee Behrens
So Aaron what you are saying is that if you went you would not give yourself a chance to change your opinion and that you would only go would be to see the mastro facility. I am sorry to dissappoint you but the whole Mastro location was not on the schedule until we made plans to fly out there. |
#84
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Steve
For asking. The answer to your question regarding two authenicators can actually be answered by following your own thread. What auction co. doesn't self authenticate? |
#85
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: jay behrens
I wish I had a tape. When the meeting got moved to the Mastro offices, they nixed my use of the video camera for security reasons. I didn't think of it until heading back home that I should have left the lense cap on and used it as just an audio recorder. This isn't so bad either since SCDA has said that this gladly make this presentaiton to anyone, at any show they set up at. So you can see it yourself at the National or other shows they are at. Just call them ahead of time to let them know you want to see it. I'm starting to think they should just pack this material with them at every show. |
#86
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Steve
Troy R. Kinunen stated |
#87
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: From The Fearless NAIVE lips of
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1107478964&lp=1108414835 |
#88
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
Jay, sorry but I'm 100% right about the return policy. Check page 5 of the current Mastro Classic Collector auction catalog. It's listed under SCD's profile in the "A Word About Authenticity" section. |
#89
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
"It would make great SCD print." |
#90
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Lee Behrens
Joe, |
#91
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Guys, thanks for the reporting on the trip. I know you were all skeptical going in so I can appreciate your feelings now. That being said, an authenticator should not be selling his own crap without disclosing his relationship to the item. End of story--no matter how many times Troy sends me personal invective via email. |
#92
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
"So Aaron what you are saying is that if you went you would not give yourself a chance to change your opinion and that you would only go would be to see the mastro facility. I am sorry to dissappoint you but the whole Mastro location was not on the schedule until we made plans to fly out there." |
#93
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Lee Behrens
I agree with that fact that they should not sell an item they sold without disclosure of the fact. It seems alot of that is up to the auction houses from my understanding. We did not agree on everything especially that the bat should receive an A10, in my eyes at least an A9. |
#94
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Naive and Sleepless in Iola
You make me feel like an expert, and I know absolutely nothing about bats, gloves and the likes. |
#95
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: jay behrens
Joe, thank you for coming down from your high and mighty place. I knew you were sitting next to Aaron, in your comfortable win-win loungers. You say I am unqualified? Do you know what my experience is with game used bats? I'll let you answer this and prove your ignorance on this one. |
#96
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Lee Behrens
Sweet now you say that Robert Plantich and Burdick are in the same league give me a break. |
#97
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
For what it's worth, I don't think it appropriate to malign those that went on the trip as rubes that were dazzled by the bright lights of Chicago. These guys are obviously bright, learned collectors who went there with a chip on their collective shoulder. It would be simplisitic and obnoxious to suggest otherwise. As for H & B not knowing that Bushing owned the item, that may also be. I'm not sure I believe it but of course I could be wrong. One thing I know that I am correct about is that Bushing knew that he owned the item that he was authenticating. And for me, that makes Bushing an untrustworthy snake oil salesman who lied by omission. |
#98
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Aaron
"Aaron, you crack me up. You talk about how easily were manipulated and claiming that nothing could manipulate you. Look at yourself, you are the one that is falling all over himself just trying to get into the MAstro offices. Of the 4 of us, who do you think would be the most easily manipulated? It would be you becuase you would be the one bedazzled and stunned like a deer looking into the headlights." |
#99
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)
don't malign those that went. You can discount or completely disagree with their take, but allow them to have one. If you believe you pre-ordained what would happen and/or had no intention of giving the report any credibility, regardless who issued it, then make your point to that effect once and move on. |
#100
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The SCDA trip
Posted By: Rob L
Aaron, since it seems that you have no interest in seeing the evidence to dispute what these guys are saying, why bash them? They told us they were going, we were asked to give them any questions that we had (some asked)and they came back and reported what they saw and felt. |
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