Collect.Com Auction Catalog on-line

[Rich Klein]

1) Bob and Steve did the right thing to do when they realized what was happenning. I agree with Bob's version of the time line. See pt 2 for what I mean

2) Having worked for a similar type company to F&W; let me assure the posters that there is no way that every department is aware of what is going on in all the other departments. Krause (F&W) is just too large for that to occur.

3) Jeff and Todd; please take your ribbing, serious or not, to emails.

4) Bob; I do disagree with you slightly in that I believe the public comment helped you all do the right thing. Just like when you wrote about the fake grading companies all those years ago. You could have contacted them privately but instead wrote a very nice article about the Fake 1963 Bazookas IIRC.

5) The Coach's Corner issue is a tricky one. Even assuming as I do based on pt #2 that Collect.Com auctions and SCD are two different operations -- unfortunately Collect.Com will be branded by the Coach's Corner relation although it is obvous that Collect.Com auction is going to be properly vetted whenever possible. Now; my buddy T.S. O'Connell wrote a blog recently in which he vented AND with very good reason about some Coach's Corners comments

Those comments appeared in his blog entry about Max Silberman (also a good friend of mine and trading partner since the 1970's) and his battle with his many ailments. That was not an appopriate place for the Coach's Corners comments and ANYONE who posted in that blog piece should be ashamed of themselves.

However; the general issue is acceptable to discuss Coach's Corner and a public airing is fine. Hey; I worked at Beckett when we were all the major pricing game in town and you should have seen some of the lies said on the old Sports Net boards in those days. Give someone an computer and not face to face talk and see what negative things get posted.

6) Good luck to Bob; Steve; etc in your auction. I hope that every lot *except for any I may bid on* reached more than your maximum goal

[Leon]

Thanks for the feedback and follow up. The only thing I will add is that there is absolutely no one on this forum, that is a participant, who is completely anonymous. They can usually remain anonymous in threads but if push comes to shove I do have their contact info, meaning first and last name and a phone number. As a matter of fact I too saw some new faces and double checked to make sure their info is on file...and it is. Good luck in the auction. If you have enough of them there will no doubt be other issues in the future. It's all about how they are handled. I knew this would be handled professionally. regards

[Mr. Mitt]

Thank you, Bob. Pulling it for further evaluation is the prudent thing to do. I applaud the decision. If you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is authentic, utilizing multiple and trusted sources, this thread will be a blessing in disguise for your next auction as the piece will garner more bidders than it would have otherwise gotten given the skepticism. I, for one, however, believe that the authentication results won't be pleasant.

As for contacting you directly, in retrospect, perhaps I should have. I understand your point of view, but hope that you understand mine too. You came on a public forum to advertise your offerings. My intent was to have a potential forgery pulled from the marketplace and not have a buyer endure the cost and hassle of later realizing he was taken. John's visual, side-by-side comparisons were invaluable. This forum is to help educate and advance the hobby. That's what was done and private emails would not have accomplished this.

Lastly, your initial concern about its authenticity given your knowledge of prior reproductions casts a darker shadow. Comparing your example to Heritage's is commendable, though why not delve a bit deeper, especially on a $20k+ lot that is the star of your inaugural auction? If you can reference Sotheby's hammer price, perhaps comparing your piece to theirs would have been appropriate.

This is not a pissing match and I don't want to diverge too far from my initial intent of thanking you for pulling the lot. A mistake was made. I make them, you make them, we all make them. They will continue to be made by all of us to varying degrees. I'm content that the proper action was taken and useful knowledge has been disseminated to the broader hobby.

Jerry

[Aric]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

That being said, I have to concur with those who expressed the idea that I, or Steve, should have been contacted directly on this subject.

Why do you think that? Who would that benefit? You. That would only benefit you. Instead, now we know that your auction house did not do it's homework on its most publicized piece in its first auction. Who's to say you have not done your homework on the remaining items? If this had not been taken public then no one else would have known. Do you expect Wonkaticket to do the research on all of your other items and notify you privately if he finds a problem.

[Jim VB]

Geeesh, Aric. I hope someday if you make a mistake or error in judgement at work, that none of us are looking. If that day ever comes, I'm sure you'd appreciate a private "Pssst..." rather than a public airing out.

I don't know of any individual or any auction house that is flawless. What sets them apart is how often (or how seldom) they have problems, and how they deal with those problems.

Bob has been around this industry a long time. I strongly suspect that he has added more to it than you ever will. (I can only "suspect" because you've made 2 posts on this board... ever. And in the second you go into attack mode on a guy who already has admitted that he may have made a mistake, and is rectifying the problem.)

Glass houses buddy.

[drc]

As Bob noted, no one contacted him and if someone had he would have have known about the issue that much sooner. This is an instance where contacting the auctioneer is the most effective and efficient way to get practical result.

[jmk59]

I'm with JimVB - every word and even every syllable of his last post.

Shut up Aric.

Joann Kline

[Rob D.]

I have no problem with the public post that was made regarding the authenticity of the item, but I'm surprised that Bob (or someone else at the auction house) wasn't sent an e-mail at the time the post was made.

Quite honestly, it's not like you can expect an auction house to make public why an item is pulled, so the post on the board helps educate and inform collectors in the event the item shows up in a different auction or on eBay at a later date. But not sending an e-mail to the auction house expressing your concerns is a questionable decision at best.

[Aric]

Okay, I may have overreacted and been a bit harsh and for that I apologize. My problem does not lie in that a bogus item made its way into the auction's catalog. I realize that happens in even the best and most prestigious auction houses. And I am sure Bob would have removed the item once it's authenticity was brought into question.

My problem lies in the calls for this to be kept private. There is too much fraud and deceit in our hobby for these things to be hidden away anymore. The good guys are sitting right next to the bad guys and who knows which is which any more. The only way we, the collector and hobbyists, can arm ourselves is with information.

[calvindog]

Aric is right. No knock to Bob who is by all accounts a very decent guy. And certainly the auctioneer should have been alerted via email. That being said, outing this possibly very large fraud was the correct thing to do.

[jmk59]

Wow Aric. Nice post. Thanks. And I'm not saying nice post b/c you agree or disagree with any particular opinion, but because in only your third post you were able to be look objectively at your position. I would have lost a lot of money betting that your next post would have been aggressive belligerent. Guess I'm just too cynical these days!

Thanks again, and I apologize for being so crabby too.

J

[Leon]

I am not sure anyone is against outing this, or any auction, that is potentially tainted. It's just the way it's done that is in question.

[wonkaticket]

Nothing was wrong with the way it was brought up.

Bob had enough energy to post the auction and hype it here.

His team had enough time to make and post YouTube videos for the bogus item.

Heck even Bob had enough time and forethought according to him too compare this questionable item to the Heritage item which I find shocking that Bob didn’t say hmm same pin holes and marks etc…hmm?

But because Jerry didn’t email Bob and I didn’t go running down Bob to outline my quick overview in a response to a fellow members question of an item so bad Ray Charles would have raised an eyebrow.

We now did something wrong?

So laughable.

Another side here for you guys to think about if Bob doesn’t have time to check the board everyday ok. But what makes you guys think Jerry and I have time to chase down auction houses we have day jobs too?

I post here for pleasure not profit, perhaps I just posted and went about my day not unlike Bob, and what a whopping few days went by...

Last I checked my day job doesn’t involve auctioning baseball cards and related items or cause me to post here to drive business to my front door.

Jerry asked a public question to a public post and I added my two cents.

Anyone who felt Bob needed to be emailed I think your computers work as you guys must have been using them to read the thread so why didn’t you email Bob if it was all so important?

Cheers,

John

P.S. I wonder if SCD has time to cash advertising checks from Coaches Corner?…LOL (kidding)

[wonkaticket]

Also Leon as an advertiser and customer I would have thought you would have emailed Bob already?

[Leon]

I was in contact with someone at their company early this morning so I knew it was being taken care of. It was in fact a long holiday weekend so I figured it would be fine in short order, as it is now. At this point we can continue debating or just let it be and get back to collecting. The main thing is folks learned and no one will have to deal with a bad piece. Obviously we are on the same team when trying to expose bad stuff in the hobby....I never have an issue with that.
You have your eye on anything this evening in Huggins and Scott?

[wonkaticket]

One item Leon and you?

Yep same team no hard feelings just felt there was no need for a fire drill on this one. Besides Jerry seemed on top of it!

Just sharing knowledge on the item in response to Jerry.

Cheers,

John

[Leon]

2-3 things.....I doubt we will butt heads. If you are going for anything esoteric you might drop me an email.

[danc]

First of all, I had to give Leon a blood test in order for the registration.

Second, noted errors made public on Boards are fair game especially if you bring this to our attention for free advertising.

Third, Rich was correct above. Sometimes people get out of line and mask themselves to protect their identity. I read most of the stuff on T.S's blog. Is it fair to him that an outraged public spews hatrid in his direction? Probably not, but is it fair that the "voice of the hobby" misleads people? All SCD does is ignore the general public and all we can do is say "no" and apparently the general public has created what we have now, thirty-five pages and I don't know one single person with a subscription.

Fourth point, your auction would be praised if you did not have an association with the periodical. SCD touts these "authenticators", stuff sells LOW and can we then consign these items to the Sportscollectorsdigest.com auction? Why not! I don't understand?

Fifth point, the famous thread was over 700, not 400.

Lastly, you have to understand, we are all frustrated and nobody gives anyone answers. It's not your fault, nor was it T.S's fault, but we are all tired of being ignored and you guys wear the work clothes of the big cog. Who is the top man in control and makes the decisions? When someone brings up this concern to someone at SCD, they handle it in one of two ways. Ignore the person or get defensive. You wonder why so many people are angry? Check out the blog at www.sports-rings.com. That dude is angry.

In saying the above, I will NEVER, EVER, EVER bid on an SCD auction, no matter how badly I need something, I would rather not fill that hole at any cost then support "that" brand name.

This is my opinion.

DanC

[PhilNap]

The whole SCD/Coach's Corner relationship is a total mess. I would think that by now, with all the abuse it apparently subjects TS to, he would certainly like to distance himself from his controversial advertiser. Unfortunately, higher ups and business survival probably dictate otherwise.

I guess dealing with the abuse is part of the job description for him, Lemke and any other SCD employee who puts himself out there.

It seems to me that this new auction venture is just an attempt to generate some positive cash flow in an effort to stay afloat. As far as supporting the auction goes . . . I have to agree with DanC here.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

But what makes you guys think Jerry and I have time to chase down auction houses we have day jobs too?

I was thinking more along the lines that a simple e-mail, which could have simply contained a link to this thread and a mesaage of "You might want to look into this," would have fit the bill.

Total time required: I'm guessing less than a minute. Maybe two.

Edited to add: I'll reiterate that I'm glad to see the information about a bad item posted here and appreciate it. I just don't think it was beyond reason to think that an e-mail could have been sent, if only as a courtesy. Even taking into account everybody's day jobs.

[Rich Klein]

Dan:

I still have a sub to SCD

Rich

[J.McMurry]

a few thoughts from an unknown.

As long as it's done respectably, anyone who points out a fake item should never be called out on the carpet. While Mr. Lemke should have gotten an email about this thread,fact is NOBODY emailed him,not even the ones saying it should be done.

I thought Danc's post #68 summed up perfectly how alot of people feel about the SCD/CC situation. Very nice post.

while I know I'm a non-expert nobody in this hobby, it dosn't mean I dont have an opinion about situations like this,especially if it involves me possibly spending my money. My handle IS my name,directly linked to my email.

[Mr. Mitt]

I'm not sure if people are referring to me or not about the anonymity issue. I'd like to chime in, if I may. I've been involved in the baseball memorabilia hobby since the late 1970's but haven't bought or sold a card for over 20 years. Because of this, I really don't have anything of value to add to 99.8% of the threads in this forum. I lurk and absorb as much information as I can because I love baseball, its history and have an interest in the broader hobby's progression. Since about 1989, I've almost strictly collected vintage baseball gloves. It's what I've gravitated towards and enjoy the most. I have a few other select pieces of memorabilia, but my focus has predominantly been on gloves and glove related ephemera. This is why I had knowledge enough to question the S&D Cobb glove advertisement. Until another glove related issue arises, you'll probably not hear from me, though I will be reading frequently.

Like everyone, my full contact information is on file with Leon. I signed my initial post with my first name and my email address is attached to each post I've made. Furthermore, I can be contacted via this forum's private messaging function. If anyone wanted, or still wants, to know my full name or anything else about me, there are outlets to get in touch with me (though it seems no one sends private emails ). Interestingly, only two people have clicked my username and viewed my "about me page" even though there have been over 3,000 views of this thread. It's not mandatory for us to reveal our full names when posting. That was the forum owner's decision, not mine. My decision was to not disclose my last name. I stand by that choice because I simply don't want to intertwine my hobby and my profession when someone searches my name on the web.

Sure, there are abusive, anonymous posters here. They upset me as much as they upset you. Until the rules of the forum change and full name signatures are mandatory, there really isn't much we can do. I simply wanted to provide my point of view as to why I don't want my full name attached to each and every post I write. I'm sure I'm not alone in this line of thinking.

Jerry

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

I was thinking more along the lines that a simple e-mail, which could have simply contained a link to this thread and a mesaage of "You might want to look into this," would have fit the bill.

Total time required: I'm guessing less than a minute. Maybe two.

Rob noted but playing devil's advocate you posted in this thread many times over the past few days perhaps you could have done the same vs. pointing out why Jerry or I didn't...

Public forum, public question and public reply on my part. Bob had the time to post here and hype figured he would have checked back to see the customer base and reaction seems logical.

I sure would if I owned an auction house and was paying for advertising and droping threads on my business actions....

P.S. Jerry don't fall into the need to defend yourself with some of the folks who find fault in anything. You're not the one who was trying to selling a known bogus item in your first auction, you're not the one who owns a business which is part of a company that takes ad money from a known fraud of a company. Folks should be thanking you for asking the question and happy that I took the time to share the info I did. Not spending time pointing fingers at you telling you what you did wrong.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Rob noted but playing devil's advocate you posted in this thread many times over the past few days perhaps you could have done the same vs. pointing out why Jerry or I didn't.

John,

Two reasons:

1. In all honesty, and of course I have no way to prove this, it never dawned on me early during the early days of the thread that Bob or the auction house had not been contacted. It really just seems -- to me, at least -- to be a no-brainer to do that. So I simply didn't see a need to do it.

2. I've got a job and don't have time to chase down auction houses.

In all seriousness, in the grand scheme of things and taking all things into consideration, I think the fact that the auction house wasn't notified privately pales in comparison to the lack of homework that was exhibited by them and the service to collectors that was done by pointing out that fact. I have a feeling that you and I think along the same lines that it's an auction house's responsbility to do its homework -- and that wasn't done here with this item.

My intent wasn't to put you and Jerry on the defensive, and in looking back on this thread, I think you both received way more support and thanks (including from me more than once) than you did criticism.

[wonkaticket]

Rob no doubt were eye to eye on this...no hard feelings.

Trust me if Bob never popped back in here in a few days I would have linked him and asked what was up. I was sure he would round back and this would be a quick fix which kudos to Collect.com seems to be exactly what was done.

Cheers,

John

[cardaholic]

If it hadn't been for wonkaticket's post here, lots of us would not know about the authenticity issue. Even if we're checking the Collect.com auction, seeing that a lot was pulled doesn't tell why it was pulled. Lots that are perfectly genuine get pulled because of ownership disputes (divorce, death, assertion that the item was stolen, etc.), because the contractual agreement with the consignor fell apart, because the lot is giving the auction house bad publicity (e.g., Roberto Clemente plane pieces), or because something has happened to the item.