OT: Who's your vote

[itjclarke]

Rickey wouldn't surprise me but it would break my heart. There was something about his weird style, hot dog snatch catches, the still framed millions dollar paycheck from Steinbrenner, always referring to himself in the third person reference, and overall total lack of tact that made me love that guy. Also loved that he played for independent minor league teams years after he retired just because he loved to play.

My totally unsubstantiated guess would be Mike Schmidt or Cal Ripken. Ripken is an interesting one, especially if you believe in the legendary Kevin Costner/Cal Ripken wife incident,and in that story, the measures the Orioles supposedly took to protect his image. I'm not saying I believe the story, but I'm sure some of you have heard it, and it was supposedly a known fact in all MLB clubhouses of the era.

Btw- now definitely believe in the 1987 juiced ball... 1961 (Jim Gentile), and 1930 are also very suspicious years.

ADDING- just checked Snopes, they don't believe the Ripken story... Still a very entertaining urban legend though

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

If that's true, my entire view of modern baseball would change. I think Rickey is one of the top 20 players to ever live.

LOL. Well don't lose sleep over it, just my "if I had to guess" pick. And it's purely a guess. Guy could just as easily be clean as a whistle.

As far as Cal goes, that'd be to me what Rickey is to you. I've seen Cal more times than I count since the late 80s and he never exuded anything but class. I think Cal was clean. He comes under suspicion because of the consecutive games streak, and playing through pain. But I think Cal was just tough as nails, simple as that. Got it honest from Sr., his dad was as tough as they come. I remember Cal talking about how his dad had an ingrown toenail that was hurting like hell. Sr. just grabbed a drill and bore down into the nail to relieve the pressure, letting out a long "ahhhhh" of relief. That's a tough old bird!

[dgo71]

As an aside, anyone else find it interesting that the poll in this thread greatly reflects the actual HOF voting?

[itjclarke]

Cal was as much a guess as Rickey.. If for nothing else, because no one had mentioned him. I do think any number (well more than 1!!) of current HOFers could have used, and used well prior to the steroid era. Again, someone else said 20% of NFL lineman admitted to using in the 70's, so there's no reason it hadn't at least trickled into MLB by then. I always hear the argument that players in that era didn't work out like they do now, and didn't believe strength and muscles contributed to success on the diamond, as they do now. I've always thought that was a little BS though. Even if 90% of players really believed that, it just takes one, two guys to try roids and then notice they're crushing the ball harder in BP, or throwing harder for longer for it to take hold and influence the game.. And eventually other players. I highly doubt it all just started with Jose Canseco.

Steroids and what they've done to the game really does bother me, and even though I think they're legitimate HOFers, I'm in no way Bonds/Clemens apologists. It does bother me that so many people make so many assumptions about the the cleanliness of the past (that they didn't juice and that greenies aren't really cheating), and assumptions about guys past or present they think are clean (or really want to be clean), and so many opposite assumptions about the easy villains.

It is interesting that this vote is pretty close to the writers'.. I guess that just means it is a pretty fair representation of how writers/fans feel overall. Will be very interesting to see how these views evolve over time. I'm sure very few people in 1939 wanted Joe Jackson in the hall, but over the decades after several books and couple movies that view has changed.

[calvindog]

If you look at it objectively, not in an aspirational way as to what you want the HOF standards to be for admission, then I think Biggio and Piazza should get in. That being said, all of the players listed above are flawed.

[tbob]

Next year: Glavine not a Hall of Famer???? The guy won 305 games. If you let in Don Sutton because he won 300 games and include Ferguson Jenkins, Phil Niekro and Bert Blyleven, how in the world can you exclude Glavine? Glavine and Maddux are no-brainers next year. Thomas should also be in the Hall too.
I remember when Yogi Berra wasn't voted in the first year of his elgibility and Piazza couldn't hold Yogi's jock, so Piazza needs to be patient, like Carter he will get in eventually.
By the way- If I had one game to win I'd still take Jack Morris over Blyleven, Jenkins, Niekro or Sutton. I am beginning to doubt Black Jack ever gets in though, that would be a shame.
Personally until the veterans committee votes in Tony Oliva and Mike Donlin, I'll think the whole system is flawed.

[itjclarke]

I think Glavine needs to be a lock, 1st ballot, not only because he won 300 in an era when pitchers weren't supposed to reach 300 anymore.. but because he was one of the first and only players (Jeff Kent spoke out also) that had the nads to take a stand early on for the implementation of PED testing.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by tbob

If I had one game to win I'd still take Jack Morris over Blyleven, Jenkins, Niekro or Sutton. I am beginning to doubt Black Jack ever gets in though, that would be a shame.
Personally until the veterans committee votes in Tony Oliva and Mike Donlin, I'll think the whole system is flawed.

I'd have to go with Jenkins -- having seen him pitch he was no nonsense, somewhat like Gibson.
Agree that the Vet Ctte is flawed re Oliva and Donlin.