what a joke

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by scottglevy

Oh my goodness!!

That is probably the single greatest deal that I have seen during my entire time collecting prewar cards. What an incredible purchase!

+2

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

+2

Barry- got in late to the thread, what purchase?

[CW]

and...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Barry- got in late to the thread, what purchase?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...p2047675.l2557

[howard38]

,

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by howard38

Holy cow! Is that negligence on the part of PWCC or is it the card owner's responsibility? If PWCC specializes in sports items I'd think they should notice things like this.

I sort of asked the same question in post 48. The consignee has responsibilty to "get the most" for his consigner. No?

[Sean]

PWCC sells a lot of T206s every month. I think the mistake is their's.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Barry- got in late to the thread, what purchase?

A Southern Leaguer with a Brown Old Mill back sold for the price of a VG-EX common.

[barrysloate]

As far as who is responsible for the error, it's everyone- the consignor didn't know what he had, the seller missed it and didn't mention the back was brown, and all the bidders missed it too. It fell into the T206 Bermuda Triangle.

[thehoodedcoder]

i'm half tempted to ask, the unthinkable.

do you think that the buyer even knew what he was buying?

is that possible as well? i don't think it is out of the realm of possibility.

kevin

[danmckee]

PWCC has no clue about pre war baseball cards. That brown old mill hit him in the face and he lost $15K for his consigner. Embarrassing!

Kevin Mize - I missed you at the National,

Please feel free to introduce yourself at any show I am set up.

BMW knows better, their mother irishhosta is posting a faded black Old Mill.

Dan Mckee

[Cardboard Junkie]

No pussyfootin around with Dan.....I admire that! Dave.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

i'm half tempted to ask, the unthinkable.

do you think that the buyer even knew what he was buying?

is that possible as well? i don't think it is out of the realm of possibility.

kevin

The buyer of the brown Old Mill has forgotten more than most of you zeros will ever know, he knew exactly what he was doing and stole a $15K card.

Comical just like this board!

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

No pussyfootin around with Dan.....I admire that! Dave.

You called that Dave, I call it how I see it! Take Care, dan

[MW1]

The card advertised for sale is exactly as described--a shade of color between black and brown.

That's incorrect, Dan. I've been in the hobby for quite a few years and after the many millions of cards I've seen, I can emphatically state that the back of the Old Mill is not faded. Of that much, I am certain. The T206 in question came from an original collection which contained other, tough front-back combinations. None of the cards in the collection were faded or possessed unusual or significant elements of environmental degradation.

The card advertised for sale is exactly as described--a shade of color between black and brown.

[danmckee]

I respect you Mike, we have had very good dealings in the past, but that isn't even close to a brown Old Mill. Sorry my friend, you are dreaming on this one unless the scan is terribly bad. I own 2 brown old mills and 1 is labeled brown by SGC.

I would stake my life (though not worth much) that your card is not even close to a brown Old Mill.

That being said, you and your brother are still long time friends of mine.

Dan Mckee

[MW1]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I respect you Mike, we have had very good dealings in the past, but that isn't even close to a brown Old Mill. Sorry my friend, you are dreaming on this one unless the scan is terribly bad. I own 2 brown old mills and 1 is labeled brown by SGC.

I would stake my life (though not worth much) that your card is not even close to a brown Old Mill.

That being said, you and your brother are still long time friends of mine.

Dan Mckee

I'm not claiming it's a Brown Old Mill, Dan. Read the description.

[danmckee]

ok I see we are splitting hairs here, I re-read the description. You win. I have been on this squirrel board too long tonight anyway.

take care and good luck with your card

Dan Mckee

[Runscott]

Bill, if you had a brown, a black and one like Irishosta's, they would all look significantly different from one another. I know this for a fact, as I was involved in a large 'find' about 10 years ago that had a large number of these brown-black Old Mills. We discussed these at that time, board members who had seen legitimate browns told me to compare it to a Brown Hindu - others basically accused me of trying to do what Irishosta is doing. I made the comparison, and it was obvious that while these don't look like black Old Mills, they are not the rare browns. I sold them and they went for the same price as black Old Mills - not $2,500.

I realize that half of you aren't going to understand what I just wrote and the other half won't care, but it is what it is.

[drcy]

Half of us don't understand half of what you wrote, and the other half didn't understand the other half. But don't worry, we promise to compare notes.

Actually, I understood what you wrote and I'm not even into this Old Mill stuff. What you're saying is it's pretty much all voodoo.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by danmckee

BMW knows better, their mother irishhosta is posting a faded black Old Mill.Dan Mckee

Agree 100% faded standard Old Mill, regardless of the write ups.

As for the other card the buyer is a friend and knew all too well what he was buying. He got an amazing deal and took a gamble on a mislabeled card good for him.

Cheers,

John

[thehoodedcoder]

some how this thread transformed from its original goal. it was a great detour though.

back on topic...

who wrote the original description if it was not you? and who wrote the response on ebay? your replies lead me to believe it was in fact you.

please address this question.

kevin

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by danmckee

The buyer of the brown Old Mill has forgotten more than most of you zeros will ever know

Originally Posted by danmckee

Comical just like this board!

Originally Posted by danmckee

I have been on this squirrel board too long

Over 1k posts, you sure like to put down the people you hang out with.

[scottglevy]

The thing that I find most amusing about the second card is the fact that at least a dozen of the folks on here can't believe that they missed an opportunity to pick up a brown OM at under 10k. It's amazing that all these "pros" - I'll include myself in that category - simply overlooked such an important rareback.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drcy

Half of us don't understand half of what you wrote, and the other half didn't understand the other half. But don't worry, we promise to compare notes.

Actually, I understood what you wrote and I'm not even into this Old Mill stuff. What you're saying is it's pretty much all voodoo.

Haha. Well, David - I'm betting that you are the only person who read it thoroughly enough to even attempt to understand it. The posts before it and after indicate as much. But, then again, it could be that people are just enjoying an opportunity to pile on (quite often that is a quality of this board) and couldn't care less about having an intelligent conversation.

[drcy]

I did think I understood what you wrote. If you compare all three side by side in person, the difference brown and black & black's variants is clear. Pun intended. If I didn't want a pun, I would have said obvious instead of clear.

Describing color variations in words is by definition a difficult task. Colors are seen not read, and words can only inexactly symbolize colors.

In short "Seeing is believing."

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

As for the other card the buyer is a friend and knew all too well what he was buying. He got an amazing deal and took a gamble on a mislabeled card good for him.

Cheers,

John

Any chance he'd share his approximate (+/- 10%) max bid.. or better yet, his precise max bid?

I'm not really a back collector and would never have been looking for this, so it doesn't sting too much... but strangly it does sting a little. I'm guessing he was prepared to go much higher, so if I, or anyone else were to know we'd have needed to bid several thousand higher, it may feel a little better.

Regardless, good on your friend.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Over 1k posts, you sure like to put down the people you hang out with.

He's slumming with us zeros.

[wonkaticket]

This kind of stuff is good for the hobby every now and then IMO.

Keeps us on our feet, dreaming, hoping and engaged in the search. As painful as it may be for the seller it's good to know that in this hobby filled with hype, mucho ads and talk of SMR's that great items and deals can still be found with a little digging and sometimes a lot of luck.

It shouldn't sting it should be refreshing but that's just my take.

As for the deatils of the purchase the buyer is a humble and nice guy Ill let him share the details should he decide too.

Cheers,

John

P.S. I was told by him today that when I said it was $51.55 there was close to $4 in shipping I didn't take into account.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

It shouldn't sting it should be refreshing but that's just my take.

As for the deatils of the purchase the buyer is a humble and nice guy Ill let him share the details should he decide too.

Fair enough. It is cool, and amazing for your friend. Especially cool when it was a high profile seller, selling cards from a high profile set and it still slipped through. "Sting" may be the wrong word, especially since I wasn't looking for this type card/back. There are other cards I've missed out on, where the "deal" was $50, $100, $200 that stung a lot more because I was actively searching, even watching and for whatever reason missed out at auctions' end, or eBay's mobile site's timer was 5 seconds off, etc.

I am still curious to know what he bid.. but at the same time, I guess the mystery adds to the coolness.

[barrysloate]

"It shouldn't sting it should be refreshing...."

If I were the consignor and found out, it would sting a whole lot.

[thehoodedcoder]

the consigner is now aware of what a brown old mill card is....

they were not beforehand.


kevin

[ullmandds]

refreshing...like a York peppermint pattie!

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

refreshing...like a York peppermint pattie!

Ugh...loaded with sugar....bad for your teeth!

[JerryTotino]

I won the Brown Old Mill Sid Smith.

To answer some of the questions people had:

* I was almost 100% sure that the back of the card was brown.
* I was willing to take a chance even if I was wrong and set my max bid to several thousand dollars higher than the ending price.

I first noticed the card shortly after it was listed and was keeping an eye on it to look for any unusual bidding. This would be a clear indication that others had also spotted the card. The bidding appeared normal with only a few minutes left, but I was still very worried that someone else had seen the card and was waiting to put in a last minute snipe. To my utter amazement and shock I couldn’t believe that the ending price was only $51.50

I actually started to second guess myself because no one else bid up the card, but since the winning bid was so low it really didn’t matter at that point if I was wrong.

Needless to say I was a very happy camper after examining the card in person.

I still have no clue how others didn't spot this card. There are some extremely knowledgeable collectors that I know look for items such as this on eBay. How everyone else missed this card is still mind blowing to me.

A few people have inquired about whether the card was for sale and my answer was no. At this point I want to keep it in my collection.

Thanks,

Jerry

[ullmandds]

congrats Jerry...great get!!!

[caramelcard]

Nice pickup Jerry!

I do look for them, but didn't see this one.

Legit T207 brown prints sure don't get this type of attention...

Rob

[Jay Wolt]

Jerry congrats on your purchase, we are all envious of that grab.

[itjclarke]

I echo the others, congratulations Jerry, that's an amazing pick up!!

[JohnP0621]

Great Find Jerry. Congrats. That tops my find from 3 Months ago when I purchased a Raw T206 Tinker Bat off w/ an A Beauty 460 back for $100 . Had it Graded by PSA and it came back a Gr 1 due to minor Paper Loss on the back. It was the only one graded by PSA so I sent it to Goodwin Auction. Final Price at end of Auction was $3800.00. Your Find should Quadruple that and More. Goes to Show that there are still Great Finds out there to be Found.

Regards
John P

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by danmckee

PWCC has no clue about pre war baseball cards. That brown old mill hit him in the face and he lost $15K for his consigner. Embarrassing!

Kevin Mize - I missed you at the National, you said I was just a computer tough guy and that you would see Scott Forest at the National, yet I was there for 5 days and hungout with Scott and never met you????

Please feel free to introduce yourself at any show I am set up at, I would truly love to meet the person that sabbotaged 21 of my ebay auctions with a bogus ebay ID.

BMW knows better, their mother irishhosta is posting a faded black Old Mill.

Dan Mckee

Danny boy- first of all, I have nothing but respect for Scott Forrest, great guy. He is nothing at all like you, obnoxious, arrogant, disgusting, and incredibly crude (your good points). You can dish it out, but you damn sure can't take it. It's funny how some people on this board find you somewhat humorous, but deep down they have to wonder, "what in the hell is this guy so miserable about?" By the way, no need to sabotage your Ebay auctions, I only placed a bid on one, just one mind you, and your response was "get a f***ing life you asshole, I get sick and tired of you MFers" Anytime you want to meet me, let me know pal....Oh, by the way, have a nice day....

[thehoodedcoder]

I was trying hard to refrain from posting a negative comment but quite honestly, I have this stupid trait where I'm a straight shooter and I don't hold back on what I think. The comment was dick. This is now like the 3rd time I think, that my thread has been wrecked by the two of you going at it. I believe Dan instigated all of them but I'm honestly not sure.

You show up, make a bunch of worthless comments against the entire community of people and then disappear? Get a life guy.

I have actually removed half of what I was going to say after typing it out, because quite honestly its just not worth the flood of single sentance PMs you are about to send me. The attack mentality doesn't mean you win an argument that doesn't exist.

Leon, can we setup a section on the board for people to put on the punching gloves or something?

Kevin

[Runscott]

No matter what they say about each other, they are both nice guys. I'm sure they will bury the hatchet when they meet. But I would encourage each to wear chain mail, just in case.

[thehoodedcoder]

What constitutes being a good guy? Being fair in a deal, treating people with respect?

Maybe they are different people in person?

I guess it would be good at this point to understand this whole thing, so someone please explain it.

Kevin

[Cardboard Junkie]

This ought to clear things up......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxtN0xxzfsw

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

What constitutes being a good guy? Being fair in a deal, treating people with respect?

Maybe they are different people in person?

I guess it would be good at this point to understand this whole thing, so someone please explain it.

Kevin

Kevin, I don't think I've ever met you in person or talked with you on the phone. Perhaps you are the exact image of your internet persona. If so, there aren't many people like you, but I applaud you for successfully pulling that off.

Despite what Kevin and Dan might say, they are not the same in person as they are on the internet. Hopefully I'm not either.

[Runscott]

Kevin, my apologies - I think we did actually meet briefly at the National.

[thehoodedcoder]

Yes. I am the same in person. Sometimes the no filter gets me in trouble but not saying something at all when you feel that saying something is the right thing to do is regretful. I don't really take much personally, so i think its better to say it, hash it out and move on rather than let it linger. I also don't like to dwell on things that are dead.

I try not to live my life that way.

We did yes. Sorry for having to run so fast. I wish I could have stayed and chatted a little longer but I only stopped in to buy something real quick. I had people waiting on me.


kevin

[vintagetoppsguy]

Putting all of the blame on PWCC is absurd (although I believe they do share in some of the responsibility). This card has passed from many hands and nobody caught it until now.

1.) The owner that submitted the card to PSA should have known what he was submitting and requested PSA to list it as a brown OM on the flip.

2.) The "experts" at PSA should have caught it as well, even if the submitter didn't.

3.) The consigner (and the consigner and submitter may or may not be one in the same) should have known what he had.

4.) PWCC should have caught it and listed it properly (does eBay still have featured listings?).

5.) All of the eyes that looked at it during the auction duration missed the fact that it was a brown OM.

My point is that this card was viewed by many, many people, some in person, some on-line, and all but 1 missed it. The buyer got a steal and congrats to him!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by JerryTotino

I won the Brown Old Mill Sid Smith.

To answer some of the questions people had:

* I was almost 100% sure that the back of the card was brown.
* I was willing to take a chance even if I was wrong and set my max bid to several thousand dollars higher than the ending price.

I first noticed the card shortly after it was listed and was keeping an eye on it to look for any unusual bidding. This would be a clear indication that others had also spotted the card. The bidding appeared normal with only a few minutes left, but I was still very worried that someone else had seen the card and was waiting to put in a last minute snipe. To my utter amazement and shock I couldn’t believe that the ending price was only $51.50

I actually started to second guess myself because no one else bid up the card, but since the winning bid was so low it really didn’t matter at that point if I was wrong.

Needless to say I was a very happy camper after examining the card in person.

I still have no clue how others didn't spot this card. There are some extremely knowledgeable collectors that I know look for items such as this on eBay. How everyone else missed this card is still mind blowing to me.

A few people have inquired about whether the card was for sale and my answer was no. At this point I want to keep it in my collection.

Thanks,

Jerry

I think my biggest worry would have been someone catching it before PWCC sent it out and cancelling the transaction....I'll bet that was an anxious few days before you finally had it in hand. Congrats on what has to be the biggest steal I've ever seen on ebay.